TubeNet

In searching through old posts, it looks like the most recent posting on this subject was over two years ago. It seems like a good bit of advances have been made since then, in terms of companies serving this niche as well as quality, features, etc.

One thing that's been difficult to discern as I shop the choices is the quality of recording the lower frequencies, i.e., the tuba.

(I know I can put software on my laptop, get mics, yada, yada, yada; this post is not concerned with that option. I'm looking for a handheld device I can take with me, keep in the gigbag, etc.)

Has anyone made a purchase in the last few months? Which did you choose, and why?

Thanks!

I just bought the Zoom Q3HD video recorder. Great digital quality video and sound, easy to use.
At about $300, I think it's a bargain.

It does require the us of SD cards, though.

-Frank

I will preface this post by saying that I don't currently own a handheld recorder at all, having sold off the several that I did have over the years because they were all too difficult to use (and thus didn't get used often).

However, I live and work in an enviornment where I see portable recording devices on a daily basis. The latest thing seems to be microphone and software packages for tablet computers, specifically the ipad. I know that Apogee and Blue both make a mic designed for the ipad, and there are likely other options out there (probably at a lower price point, too). Well over 90% of what I've seen in the last two years has been ipad based.

Those that haven't embraced the ipad seems to mostly still be using the portable Zoom H2 (about $200), though I occasionally see a Marantz or Yamaha pass through.

I know this doesn't specifically answer your question, but I think it's something to think about if you already have an ipad. If not, the Zoom H2 is awfully hard to beat in the price/value department and doesn't seem to be terribly obsolete.

To clarify, I'm not looking to do anything with an iPad. That's iPad+mic(s)=multiple pieces of gear. I'm looking for the one-piece, does-it-all audio recorder.

The models I've been considering are the Tascam DR-100 Mk II and the Zoom H4n, but I'm also looking at the Yamaha PockeTrak W24 and the Sony PCM-D50.

Does anyone here own any of these or similar models/brands? Any experience with sound quality on these using the built-ins or external mics? Experience in sound quality in a practice room versus an auditorium/recital hall?

Thank you, in advance.

I've had a Zoom H2next for about 2 months now. It's just fine for the money. The mics are good at capturing brass instruments. It connects to a Mac via USB and shows up as a volume on the desktop that opens in iTunes and can be manipulated in Garageband. Under $200 at Full Compass Audio. It does not come with the USB cable, but I found one from a camera that works fine. YMMV
jc

I used my H4 for several years to record quintet rehearsals for study. I never plugged any good mics into it. It was great for that purpose until it crapped out. I replaced it with an H2 which I like even better due to ease of use. They are wonderful for brass for what they cost.

Mitch wrote:
The models I've been considering are the Tascam DR-100 Mk II and the Zoom H4n, but I'm also looking at the Yamaha PockeTrak W24 and the Sony PCM-D50.

All of those models should do what you are looking for - they all offer pretty much the same thing - higher-than-CD-quality audio resolution recording in a hand-held device. But from my brief search on those models, only the Tascam and Zoom offer XLR mic inputs AND the built-in mics. The Yamaha and Sony are expensive and probably wont do much (if any) more than the Tascam or Zoom. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

The first trumpet in one of my quintets has a Zoom H2n and it sounds pretty good. It gives surround sound unlike the other models. But it doesn't have the XLR inputs like the H4n or DR-100. I'd probably get the Zoom H4n, but I don't use those small hand held recorders.

I am recording one of my quintets with regular digital multitrack portastudios. Not nearly as compact or convenient as the hand held recorders, but I like the ease of use and options/versatility.

External mics will almost always sound better than built in mics. And this is largely because of mic placement, which is crucial in good recordings - especially with cardioid or supercardioid mics. You are limited if you have to use the built-in mics, which tend to be small electret condensers.
If you want to eventually buy external mics, get a pair of good cheap pencil condensers from Apex, CAD or MXL. Should only cost $100 - $150 for the pair and sound like much more expensive mics. Of course you'll need XLR cables and need Phantom Power on your recorder for them to work. And mic clips/shockmounts, mic stands.....but it's worth it

I really like my Zoom H4n. Sound quality is better than the H2 and in particular has better low end response. The H2 starts rolling off significantly at a higher frequency point than the H4. My H4 will sometimes sound a tad bright when recording my brass group but is usually OK with the wind ensemble and orchestra I play in. It is relatively easy to tweak the recordings with a graphic EQ to correct for that brightness.

The XY pattern of the mics on the H4n results in very good imaging. On a decent sound system you can get a very good sense of instrument placement. I've only recorded in large rooms or outside so far. The windscreen is essential when recording outside. In a small room, I suspect the H4n might be fairly dry and clinical sounding. That might be good if you are using it to be critical of your own playing.

I've not tried external mics with it yet, but very much like that I have the option. Since I am usually dragging my tuba, a music stand and a camera in addition to the H4n and a mic stand to gigs, I haven't been real inclined to lug mics, cables and another mic stand.

On the used market the H4n is typically only slightly more expensive than the H2. I recommend Imedion or eneloop batteries for the H4n.

mike

Mitch wrote:
The models I've been considering are the Tascam DR-100 Mk II and the Zoom H4n, but I'm also looking at the Yamaha PockeTrak W24 and the Sony PCM-D50.

Does anyone here own any of these or similar models/brands? Any experience with sound quality on these using the built-ins or external mics? Experience in sound quality in a practice room versus an auditorium/recital hall?

Thank you, in advance.

I don't have a hand-held. I'm still using a Marantz 'field recorder' that records straight to a CD in ready-to-play audio format.

Frank Ortega wrote:I just bought the Zoom Q3HD video recorder. Great digital quality video and sound, easy to use.
At about $300, I think it's a bargain.

It does require the us of SD cards, though.

-Frank

Frank, does the Q3HD come with audio editing capability? F'rinstance, the H4/H4n has a DAW package included...does the Q3 too? It would be great to have both capabilities in one unit.

Thanks!
steve

I started using the Q3HD recently by the problem I found with them is that the mic gain can only be set to high or low. The fix I found was setting the mic gain to high and using the zoom H1 as the external mic and setting the mic gain on the H1 to about 40.

I also have the Zoom H4 but I have not had time to figure out how to use it and I really dont need it so it will probably go up for sale.

Mitch wrote:To clarify, I'm not looking to do anything with an iPad. That's iPad+mic(s)=multiple pieces of gear. I'm looking for the one-piece, does-it-all audio recorder.

The models I've been considering are the Tascam DR-100 Mk II and the Zoom H4n, but I'm also looking at the Yamaha PockeTrak W24 and the Sony PCM-D50.

Does anyone here own any of these or similar models/brands? Any experience with sound quality on these using the built-ins or external mics? Experience in sound quality in a practice room versus an auditorium/recital hall?

Thank you, in advance.

I have a Sony PCM-D50. Certainly not a new model, as it's been around unchanged since 2007! I like it because you can record at 24 bit at up to 96khz, which are not features that a lot of the competitors have traditionally had, although it looks like their most recent models are catching up in this regard. I believe the sound quality from the built in mics is better than what I've heard from some of the cheaper models, although I have never been able to do a back-to-back comparison. Mics work reasonably well, although they are cardiod so there is a proximity effect for low frequencies. I really like that this model has the ability to change from X/Y to ORTF microphone setup. It really lets you tailor the setup to the size of the group. It can be difficult to get a good stereo image with the X/Y setup in front of a large group like a brass band or wind ensemble. The sound quality is very good and I get a very good stereo image when I've set it up at the right spot. I also like that it's got an optical digital input, so I can use an external A/D and mic preamp/mics if I want to go super high quality without dragging out a computer and all that - although a proprietary sony cable is required. I wish sony had a wireless remote available like some of the other brands do, but that's a small gripe. It'd also be nice if it took standard SD memory cards rather than the proprietary sony memory sticks, but it's really got plenty of built-in RAM so it hasn't been a huge issue. Get an adapter so you can put it on a mic stand... I found one that roland makes that works perfectly.

I've had the $100 Zoom H1 for about a year now...and I love it. It's basically just a slightly smaller, not quite as sturdy, version of its more expensive brothers. So if you're the kinda guy known for stomping on your audio equipment, it may not be your best option. But if you've only got the 100 bucks to spend,it may be your best friend, whereas you'd be waiting to afford the others. It has most of the features you'd want in a hand held recorder and the sound of the recordings is just awesome for such a convenient device.

I've recorded in several churches with it and the recordings (while admittedly not quite as good as a the ones we've had professionally done) were astonishing. When you consider the fact that I simply walked up in front of the group just prior to performance, sat the device on the floor with a teeny tripod and hit one button - then picked it back up on the way out the door and was listening to the recording from the headphone jack minutes later, I could not have been any happier.

It's also been amazing for recording my tuba practice sessions and getting instant feedback. It really doesn't seem to care where I place the thing. Every recording sounds great.

Bacchanalia wrote:... Zoom H1 ...

How long time can you record without changing battery?

I'm also in the market for a portable recorder and have taken an interest in this thread. Can anyone here tell me how well these devices do recording a large band (50 members) In a medium concert hall ( 388 seats ) ? WHere would be the best place to set the recorder up ? Right in front,mid ways or all the way in the back ?

I'm in the lucky position to have access to many devices through the school I work at. I've used the Tascam DR1, DR100, Zoom H4N, H2, Q3, Edirol R1, R09 and Sony D1.

I always end up back at the DR100, mainly for the dual battery function, and the decent XLR inputs with Phantom power. YMMV.

As an aside, I also used a Macbook/RME Babyface/SE4400a matched pair setup for live recording (brass group, choir etc at school). There is almost no perceptible difference between this cluttered setup, or the same mics straight into the DR100. Therefore the macbook and interface are now redundant!

oldbandnerd wrote:I'm also in the market for a portable recorder and have taken an interest in this thread. Can anyone here tell me how well these devices do recording a large band (50 members) In a medium concert hall ( 388 seats ) ? WHere would be the best place to set the recorder up ? Right in front,mid ways or all the way in the back ?

depends on the hall and the type of microphones in the recorder, but your best results are almost always going to be some variant of right in front. The microphones perceive sound differently than our ears and anything but right up front is going to have too much ambiance from the room and not enough direct sound from the group. The problem with a larger group and a single point recorder is that you really want to get it a fairly equal distance from all the performers in the group or else the instruments up front are going to be much louder and more present sounding than those in the back. The best way to do this is a very tall microphone stand that gets the recorder up 10-20 feet in the air or so just in front of the group. A really wet sounding stage you might want to be just behind the conductor. A really dry sounding stage you might want to be 10 feet back or so.

Lingon wrote:

Bacchanalia wrote:... Zoom H1 ...

How long time can you record without changing battery?

I'm too paranoid to not change the battery before anything important. And I've never let one run completely out. I have recorded for over 4 hours at a time without issue. Their website claims 10 straight hours on one AA and I have no problem believing that claim is at least pretty close, since even after a long recording, I'll use it for brief practice related stuff here and there for days after that. I really don't think you'll do much better out of a device on the battery issue... then you just get a monster micro SD card and you're good to go

Sorry to not be able to give you a straighter answer to your question...just never really evaluated it specifically for the battery time

I CAN tell you that for 100 bux, it blows my sox off. The lightweight (less sturdy compared to its brethren) aspect of it can obviously be considered a negative or positive, mainly depending on whether you're trying to stuff it in your pocket before performances or not. I just noticed last night, that even a year later, they've updated the firmware to include new features. I do like it when a manufacturer keeps on top of their products...instead of just telling us to buy the new one