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Is there any reason a player would use false tones instead of fingering them (obviously only on tubas with 4+ valves)? My 188 has an incredibly smooth low F false tone. It certainly lacks the focus the fingered F has but it seems like a useful sound somehow.

On my Schiller BBb rotory I've found the pedal Eb speaks quicker and more in tune when I use the false tone than when I use 1-4 1-2-4 or 3-4.

When I played a 56J I always used false tones, they didn't sound too different and were much faster than messing with slides. They were a bit off intonation wise so I only used Eb (fifth valve) down and played F 54 and E 234. D was 52 and Db 51. Low Db with all five wasn't that bad actually.

bloke wrote:The only reason that I could ever justify: speed of response

Agree. That's why I will choose to use the "false" tone if a low note has to be really short. For longer time values, I will use the regular fingerings.

Allen

Sometimes the 4th-valve fingerings are more awkward or confusing. Also, on BBb tuba for example, the low B can only be gotten using 1-2-3-4 with a long slide pull. 2-3 works fine without adjustments.

bloke wrote:

Gilligan wrote:On my Schiller BBb rotory I've found the pedal Eb speaks quicker and more in tune when I use the false tone than when I use 1-4 1-2-4 or 3-4.

1-4 and 1-2-4, and 3-4 are all the wrong lengths of tubing for low Eb (by several inches). I'm not-at-all surprised that your preferred choice is the quick-responding and barn-door-wide-slotting false tone.

I infer that it must be standard practice to tune the 4th valve for use alone on F/C/F, and you'd have to be crazy to tune it flat for use in combination with other valves?

Though not technically correct, 1-2-4 and no slide movement can work well for low Eb.

Bob Kolada wrote:Though not technically correct, 1-2-4 and no slide movement can work well for low Eb.

This combination seems to work well on most of my tubas. On a 5 valved horn, would you say 5 + 4 is preferable?

On my YCB661 and YFB621, I use 1+2+4 for that note and it seems to work well. Curious as to what others use on the same tubas. 5+4 can seem a little sharp when playing loud ...

I use the 4th valve false tone on my Conn 3J for the pianissimo pedal C's near the end of The Lion King. The false tones speak very well on that horn, and I find that note much easier to control at that volume with the added resistance.

Bob Kolada wrote:Though not technically correct, 1-2-4 and no slide movement can work well for low Eb.

Indeed. This is what I do on my 186. Because of the altered bell and tuning slide shifting the nodes, I don't even have to "blow" into tune, just raise the back of my tongue slightly to accelerate the air over the embouchure. But that is, of course, in context, of "big easy air" so the note will speak promptly.

Paul Tkachenko wrote:On my YCB661 and YFB621, I use 1+2+4 for that note and it seems to work well. Curious as to what others use on the same tubas. 5+4 can seem a little sharp when playing loud ...

I had a 1st slide ring added to my YFB621, and found that 124 (push 1) was perfect for that note.
While the YFB621 did not have the squirrely low C that many rotor F tubas have, I seem to remember that the low Bb felt just a little funny, but did play better that way for me.

It looks like the answer to Trevor's question is a big yes.

I think its safe to say that all brass instruments have a lot of notes available by pressing any ol' valve in you want.

Why? 'Cause you're an adult.

If it sounds good; do it. Don't let nobody tell you otherwise. The reactions to Trevor's post are proof that others have had great success using their own finger positions.

And while am at it, intonation and volume are note the only reasons to play a note with an alternate fingering. An alternate fingering can also change the timbre, making a selected note brighter or darker.

-Cheers,
Patrick

And an alternate fingering can facilitate a technical passage. Two examples:

1) one piece a few years ago had an ostinato slow tempo C-D-G repeated figure solo that had to be absolutely legato. The "conventional" fingering of 4 to 12 burbled badly. But pulling 1 for C as 1+3 and pushing 3 for D as 3 alone solved the problem to keep everything perfectly legato, and there was enough rest measures at the end of the passage to re-set everything "conventionally" for the next passage of the piece.

2) another piece I'm working on now has a modulating passage full of B nats. D# to B nat to C# can be fingered 1, then 2+4, then 2+3, but it will burble between the D# and B nat, and because of the limits of physiology concerning the tendons of the third and fourth finger, the B nat to C# may not be smooth. So instead, I finger it 1, then 1+2+3, then 2+3. This keeps everything even, and the B nat is an eighth note, off the beat, at a fairly quick tempo, so any sharpness is not noticable.

DP wrote:though I prefer the term "privilege notes" to "false tones"

My preference is "alternate resonances". Sometimes they are better in every sense, sometimes they are better for a particular player because they are playable while conventional resonances are not, sometimes they are worse in tone and pitch, and sometimes they are not there at all. They are tools to be used when appropriate to achieve one's musical purpose.

Rick "who'd much rather play a solid and in-tune open low Eb using an alternate resonance (even if it sounds a bit different from the tuba chair) than a fuzzy and out-of-tune 1-2-4 low Eb" Denney