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Because, I don't know that I've heard or read this discussed anywhere.

Yes, York & Sons tubas (all the ones I have played and heard) sound great. I've not had enough time on one to really know the playing characteristics.

For instance, the mighty CSO York CC tubas. Do they play as well as Mr Jacobs and Gene make them sound? Is there stuffiness with the 5th valve? Are there any really funky notes that require slide pulling contortions to be in tune? Or, do they just play themselves? Do both the CSO-owned ones play the same? Do they both SOUND the same?

Reading the Gemeinhardt and Kanstul updates, this is exciting, especially the Kanstul. The York mystique is certainly well-known, but how much of it is legend/myth, how much reality?

And, how do the Kanstuls play (not SOUND)? I may or may not ever get a chance to try one myself. The Gemeinhardts, I may be more likely to be near Elkhart at some point.

Just curious, from a naive point of view.

It does seem to me that this has been discussed at some length. Bloke's reference to a "magic tuba" reminds me of such a thread. It probably predates my involvement here, but I am tolerably certain I've read an extensive thread about this.... The search feature, or Google, might turn up something.

I am a hack but I do own a York recording three valver and have received alot of positive comments about it's sound at my local TubaChristmas. I have a Eb now as well and the sound martches. I love playing them over the other six tubas I have. But I have played on one upright CC four valver that did not have the same voice and I do not know way, but there was not volume to the amount of effort. If it is still for sale I might give it a longer term trial. It may just be me. It is the only CC that I have played.


Charlie

Doc has reviewed his Kanstul and I have reviewed mine. If you search Kanstul on this net you'll find others. Basically, we all agree with Doc. I've had mine about 1 year and really do like playing it each day. You might ask Lee Stofer, but I don't think there has been a report of a bad Kanstul. There are other great horns out there, but each seems to have an issue or a bad one in the mix.

goodgigs wrote:the lady at the booth who, due to the fact that they are a "Trading Company" wouldn't
acknowledge the fact that they were selling Jin Bao products. They lied outright claiming to be the manufacture and that they were made in Beijing.
.....

This was the bling bling model with silver and gold plaiting which I loath,

Neptune or someone else might correct me on this, but I don't think that particular model is a Jin Bao, but another Chinese maker that someone around here said is a little higher on the food chain. FWIW (which is very little, since they're still not the manufacturer).

bloke wrote:I've only played the one that is mostly used in the orchestra. The sound (seems as if it) jumps out of the instrument. There are about the same number of tuning consideration as with (ref: youtube videos of Chris Okla making adjustments on his instrument) the Yamaha copy. The York tuba is thin (probably about as thin as the 5/4 Gronitz) because old pictures show it with a satin finish, and the instrument now has a smooth finish. To reinforce this belief, it is very lightweight. This might be part of the sensation of "the sound jumping out of the instrument".

Though I've never played any of the Yorks, I found the comparison to the 5/4 Gronitz appropriate (and I also draw a parallel to the York Style Nirschl tubas). It seems to me that the thin metal lets the horn resonate more. This past summer I was over in Germany and got to try several PCK's at Gronitz. There was a stark difference between them and my own PCK back here in the states. When I asked Dietrich what changes they had made to the horn between when mine was made and the present, the one notable change we found was that they changed the sheet metal thickness from .4mm to .5mm. I just couldn't get the horn to naturally center and resonate like my horn here, but it might have been my unfamiliarity with that particular horn. Or perhaps there is a logical reasoning behind why this is...

Something interesting to remember...

...none of us have really heard "average" tuba playing on the CSO York. It's a mythical instrument because it is only ever presented to us in the absolute most capable hands. If there were only a couple of Miraphone 186's out there, and we only heard the best of the best players using them, we'd probably have a distorted impression of that too!

bort wrote:Something interesting to remember...

...none of us have really heard "average" tuba playing on the CSO York. It's a mythical instrument because it is only ever presented to us in the absolute most capable hands. If there were only a couple of Miraphone 186's out there, and we only heard the best of the best players using them, we'd probably have a distorted impression of that too!

As a totally average (yet responsible) tuba player....and Chicago local...I would be more than happy to volunteer my services to test the mythical properties of the CSO York. My repertoire would include:
* Louie Louie
* Chameleon
* ....various blatting noises
* a mixture of college marching band fight songs
* a lame attempt at playing the stars and stripes piccolo solo

.....and of course I have never payed a CC before...

I could bring a Kelly mouthpiece, a Bach 18 with severe road rash....and a Loud LM-12 (for extra fun and projection).

Think Gene would go for it?

jc

Yorks are nice and all, but for me, Holtons (admittedly less personal exposure) are the "old American tuba" sound I prefer. A friend had a worked over and flipped big Holton Eb and it was just about the best thing I've ever heard. I thought he sounded better than on his 2 Rusk Yorks (small F and 4/4 C).

Is there any legitimate proof that thin metal produces sound better than slightly thicker metal? How much thicker/thinner?

Wouldn't ideal bore and tube length that supports the best resonance be the factor?

Bob Kolada wrote:Yorks are nice and all, but for me, Holtons (admittedly less personal exposure) are the "old American tuba" sound I prefer. A friend had a worked over and flipped big Holton Eb and it was just about the best thing I've ever heard. I thought he sounded better than on his 2 Rusk Yorks (small F and 4/4 C).

+1

Holtons are like 'meatier' sounding Yorks.

pjv wrote:Never played a York, but I do own a Kanstul. They talk about a special alloy, but from what I can tell it's red brass. (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

Now if the old Yorks are also made of red brass (or at least the bell section) that could explain at least in part for their reportedly unique sound. After all, almost ALL tubas are made of yellow brass.

Can anyone out there verify this?

The original Yorks were made of yellow brass, though there are endless rumors about the particular alloy and purity of the alloy. I have always had my doubts that alloy makes much difference at all with any tuba, despite the vigorous assertions by those who compare against different instruments. I would expect any systematic differences confined to the bell to be related to the shape, perhaps the thickness, and how the metal is worked. Note that red brass, with its high copper content, works differently than brass alloys with less copper.

Kanstul has never claimed that they use the same alloy. They claim that they found an alloy that provides the same effect.

Rick "noting that Zig Kanstul does have some connection to the way Pop Johnson worked the metal in the York factory" Denney

Never played a York, but I do own a Kanstul. They talk about a special alloy, but from what I can tell it's red brass. (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

Now if the old Yorks are also made of red brass (or at least the bell section) that could explain at least in part for their reportedly unique sound. After all, almost ALL tubas are made of yellow brass.

Can anyone out there verify this?

=Cheers, Pat

ps concerning metal thickness; Adams out in The Netherlands offers his tuba's in 2 sizes; 0.6mm and 0.7mm (about 0.024 and 0.028 inches). Interesting option for a tuba.

I think the York sound is a unique one with core, growl, depth and a little bit of elephant. I would liken it to the Bull Elephant #2.

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Elephant_Audio_Sounds.aspx