Lets Talk St.Petersburg

[tubagod94]

Hello,

I wanted to give everyone who is interested in this tuba a review of the pros, cons, ups, and downs. Also, this review is my personal opinion of this horn. I know some of the older guys who might read this saying," this kid is a senior in high school how much could he know?" I am not like most high school kids in the fact that I don't go to a normal high school. I go to a performing arts high school located in the heart of Houston, Texas. We spend a MINIMUM of three hours a day (Monday-Friday) playing, taking theory, and learning piano. I have had the opportunity to work with Dave Kirk on multiple occasions, had master classes with Synergy Brass quintet, Oystein Baadsvik,Ron Barron, and many other professional musicians.

Since we have gotten that out of the way lets get back to the topic. I own a St.Petersburg BBb 202N with four rotary valves, and it is silver plated. I have learned when buying a tuba that you get what you pay for, and I see this with the St.Pete. This horn would be an okay beginner horn not great. Why you ask? Here are some of the biggest downfalls to the horn: it dents very easily, valves are smooth but very hard to push, doesn't feel stable in upper register, the D in the staff is tricky when it comes to tuning, and higher notes don't speak as easy or with the warmth almost like it is just too high for it. Now, lets get to the up sides of the horn. This horn is light and overall has a nice range. When playing lower notes it speaks easily and has a good warmth about it, and pedal tones are easier to hit then on some of the other BBbs I have played on.

Would I recommend this horn to a friend? I have to say that it would depend on if he / or she wanted to be professional or just a recreational player. This horn for the price is pretty good, and would suite a younger player (just starting out) in elementary or middle school.
Would I buy this horn again if I had it to do all over again? Probably not. This has been an okay horn, but I would save up and buy a better made horn. ( Yamaha, Miraphone, Jupiter, and Meinl and Weston.)

I hope this review helped someone, and once again these are just my personal opinions. I am not saying that they are 100% true, but it is from my standpoint as a student and avid player.

Best Regards,

Nick Phillips.

[Dan Schultz]

Nick... I've never seen a silver-plated St. Pete 202N. All have been nickel-plated. Can you confirm?

[tubagod94]

I am sorry it is nickle plated! I was taught playing younger since the horn was to tall to play it on it's side!

Thanks,

Nick Phillips.

[Dan Schultz]

I am sorry it is nickle plated! I was taught playing younger since the horn was to tall to play it on it's side!

Thanks,

Nick Phillips.

That's OK, Nick. Some of the other guys on The Forum might be mean and discredit everything else you said.

However... that's not my style. I've just never seen a silver-plated St. Pete 202N.

I've played, bought, and sold about a dozen St. Pete 201N and 202N in the last ten years. The 201N and the 202N are identical except for the way the leadpipe is mounted and the paddle linkages. I can't dispute anything you've said except that they belong with 'beginner students'. The St. Petes are what they are... economical tubas. All of the St. Petes that have been through here are now in the hands of intermediate or professional players.

Goodgigs is 100% correct inasmuch as these horns have no business in the hands of younger players. They are well suited for advanced high school players, college players, and adult amateurs.

There was a time when the St. Petes got a 'bad rap'... perhaps 15 or so years ago. Most of the problems were simply associated with the horns being sold with manufacturing grit not properly removed. There were some 'fit & finish' issues but The Tuba Exchange did a great job of resolving those issues.

I'm frankly very surprised that you would mention Jupiter as a 'preferred' brand. I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion. Save your money and buy a 'high-end' tuba of your choice. I'll guarantee you that you will find issues with any horn that you think is 'the best'. I own some of the best (by popular opinion... not mine) and none of them play themselves.

[tubagod94]

The one Jupiter I played on was nice! If I recall he changed the linkage, but other then that it was not to bad. I must have just gotten the "Bad Apple" in the bunch. It just has not worked well for me.

Thanks,

Nick Phillips.

[toobagrowl]

Ya know, those St. Petes are good tubas for the money. I usually place St. Pete and Cerveny tubas into the same "good 'budget' tubas" category. I like the sounds those tubas make over most Jupiters, Yamahas and Miraphones.

I have played a few St. Petes, including a newer generation one about a year ago...

My observations:

- Good, even intonation (better than many more expensive models).

- Good, even response (better than many more expensive models/GREAT low range response).

- Focused, projecting dark sound.

- Valves are very smooth and fast and more reliable on the newer models (older models had issues).

- Metal is paper-thin & easy to dent, but I don't see that as a big problem if you are careful with it.

- All St. Pete models are roughly the same design & size. It would be nice if there was more variety.

[modelerdc]

I suspect that St. Peterburg nich in the market is narrowing quickly. Positioned as less expensive than the better tubas but with quality issues, it is in danger of being displace by the better made Chinese imports. I've recently seen several auctions for Miraphone 186 CC for less than 2K and 186 B flats for less than 1.5k close with no bids, and this tells me that the market is changing.

[kingconn]

Is the Tuba Exchange TE-2110 a St Petersburg clone?

[tubagod94]

If I recall correctly Tuba Exchange bought St.Petersburg. So, yes there is a chance it might be.

Regards,

Nick Phillips.

[Chen]

Honestly when I attended St. Petersburgh Philharmonic concert where the tuba player was playing on one, he sounded pretty #$%^& awesome.

[Lectron]

Ya know, those St. Petes are good tubas for the money. I usually place St. Pete and Cerveny tubas into the same "good 'budget' tubas" category. I like the sounds those tubas make over most Jupiters, Yamahas and Miraphones.

I have played a few St. Petes, including a newer generation one about a year ago...

My observations:

- Good, even intonation (better than many more expensive models).

- Good, even response (better than many more expensive models/GREAT low range response).

- Focused, projecting dark sound.

- Valves are very smooth and fast and more reliable on the newer models (older models had issues).

- Metal is paper-thin & easy to dent, but I don't see that as a big problem if you are careful with it.

- All St. Pete models are roughly the same design & size. It would be nice if there was more variety.

That is also my impression. Valves very smooth, but springs could be a bit tight
I would say they outrange the Chinese horns in every aspect.

The quality seemed o be up-graded quite a bit ~May last year

[iiipopes]

I have a salvaged St Pete upright bell on my 186 detachable when I don't want to use the stock recording bell (which is, of course, most of the time). I agree with the positive comments about the focused, dark, smooth tone of the bell. I get compliments on its tone. I also agree that I would not own one of the BBb's. The Eb, however, is getting good reviews for the price, @$3600 new.

[MartyNeilan]

I have sat near two St. Petes that had atrocious intonation. It is always possible that it was the players, though.

[jmerring]

Your own words work against you and should make a decision easier. You really don't want to throw a middle schooler or even a high
schooler into the depths of bore size, unless they can prove that they can handle it, without shortness of breath. The horn is basically a very good choice, from a monetary view; but a horn that can not be played without disturbing breathing problems, is not for your students.

My recommendations:

Used Yamaha 201 (3 valve, non-comp), or 321 (4th valve)
ANY used Miraphone 1864U (Yes, I know the price range)


I hope I am not off the mark, here. But I am seeing MIDDLE SCHOOLER and HIGH SCHOOLER, jumping out at me. The .820 - .835 bore on the St Pete is a difficult horn (almost at any age).

[PaulMaybery]

My grouse on the St. Pete is projection. It plays nice, response, intonation, and the feel from behind the horn are "nice." Not great, but "nice." When ever I have been in bands with St. Petes, I find that the sound really does not hold together and make it out into the hall, that is with holding is focus and the character of its sound. My take is that it is too light to be taken as a serious instrument for high level performance, MWs, various BATS, even the tried and true 186 score higher in my book. In a symphonic band in particular you need a sound that will help the band with an enormous bottom and with enough weight to the sound to drive the band when the tubas are playing "time'. The tubas should do more than just follow along, they need to promote the tempo with a strong commanding presence. They have important functions to perform and need to produce an extremely solid sound. Perhaps not everyone can do that, and perhaps a lighter more 'friendly' horn like the St. Pete will suffice. I simply can not take it seriously as a pro level tuba. If you are looking for a clone of the St. Pete, but much better made. Check out Weingrill instruments from Brasil. They have a brass lacquer version of the St. Pete, though much better fit and finish. I take it that the brass as a bit more integrity to it, than what is used to fabricate the Russian tuba.

[ghmerrill]

This would be the worst horn in world history for a grammar school kid.

Maybe not the worst, but surely a contender. And not just for a grammar school kid, but for middle school kids as well. I remain astonished at some of the horns put in the hands of middle school tuba players (not to mention the humongous mouthpieces they get to bury their faces in).

I recently set up a gig for about a half dozen of us in my community band (playing from the Tuba Christmas book), and a couple of middle school kids (8th grade) were part of this. The middle school tuba player showed up with a 4/4 Yamaha (YBB-321, I'm pretty sure) that he manfully wrestled into position on his tuba stand and then proceeded to play very well. But it was a continuing struggle for him to just handle the horn.

In contrast, one of the high-end private middle schools in the area has an excellent music director who provides his tuba players with 3/4 Jupiter tubas. Not the best tuba in the world, but physically manageable by 6th-8th graders. You just shouldn't have to fight the horn every time you want to practice or perform. It's not conducive to progress or fun.

Maybe there are economic reasons for sticking kids with instruments way too big for them ("This is the only tuba we've got. So if you want to play tuba, this is what you get."). Otherwise, I don't get it. And definitely a rotary horn with less than totally smooth and easy valves and linkages would be pretty discouraging -- if not outright painful over time.

The local high school where we rehearse has an array of St.Pete Bb horns (nickel plated, of course) and they seem always to be in quite good shape (maintained by Tuba Exchange, I believe). They seem a bit heavy to me, but are otherwise decent horns (though not on the level of the Cerveny I used to have).

[ghmerrill]

I have heard one played by a college performance major (not exactly a top tier school), and it sounded very good in his hands. I do think the nickel plating tends to make them a bit heavier than other finishes, but as Bloke suggests, it also makes them more durable. However, I also used to sit beside a geezer in community band who played one that I think was less than five years old and was showing some brass through the finish at a couple of the usual points. I found this surprising, and maybe it depends on how it was treated and what finish variation there may have been over time.

[ghmerrill]

I agree that they're funny looking. Nickel isn't exactly a true silver color, but has an odd cast to it -- sometimes described as "a golden tinge". To me it also tends to look kind of greasy.

I just looked up the weights of silver and nickel, and silver is actually heavier.

[balchb]

Bucket of bolts.... I hate the one I bought for my school band program. Pitch is quirky (very flat 4th valve, open bugle pitch is not as good as other inexpensive models), my main ferrule came apart so the bell and bow were literally separated, and my thumb ring plate came off. Our reputable repair shop said the ferrule was only soldered on one side and the overall construction was quite poor (they were very surprised at how well my Wessex was built for the price).

[ken k]

i just bought a big ol Conn 36J and am enjoying it but I am still keeping my eye out for cheap St pete if anyone has one around collecting dust.