Cerveny CC "Piggy"

[Stephen Shoop]

Please give impressions about the Cerveny CC "Piggy" model tuba.... good characteristics (as well as not-so-good), general intonation issues, choice of mouthpiece, modifications that tend to make the horn play better, etc. Thanks.

[arpthark]

The person to ask this would be Norm Epley - he's had an older Piggy for years and he's used it as his main CC since. Sounds great on it, too. Fun little horn - plays way bigger than its size. I'll PM you his email.

[Roger Lewis]

I own one of the first batch of Walter Sear Piggys that dates back to about 1970. It was my only CC tuba for quite a number of years. It is only a 4 valve model and it plays great. I won the Tanglewood Fellowship on it in 1985 and have played it around Europe quite a bit in the past. I subbed with the Boston Pops on this horn at Tanglewood and it DOES play bigger than it looks. Great sound, incredible high range and substantial low range presence. Mine has a new leadpipe on it and the valve paddle mechanism is off a Rudy Meinl 5/4 and works great. I've played some of the newer 4 valve models and they play quite similarly though the valve action is not as good as mine.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions I can answer.

All the best.

Roger

[arpthark]

Just curious, Roger or anyone in the know - did the "Piggy" nickname come from Sear, or someone / somewhere else?

[DonnieMac]

My first Piggy was the 4 valve model and I was urged to send it to Larry Minick so he could add a 5th valve, a 2 step valve. Roger Bobo spotted this Piggy in Minick's shop, played it and asked if he could borrow it. Couldn't say no to Roger Bobo who used that tuba with the LA Phil in their Hollywood Bowl season. Sold it but a few years later got another Piggy to use when the Willson 3050r is too weighty to haul around. The Monette Parana 94 mp works pretty good as does the much less expensive G&W Bayamo. Watch out for dents if you haul the Piggy in a gig bag. Unlike the Willson the Piggy will dent rather easily.

[jonesbrass]

My first Piggy was the 4 valve model and I was urged to send it to Larry Minick so he could add a 5th valve, a 2 step valve. Roger Bobo spotted this Piggy in Minick's shop, played it and asked if he could borrow it. Couldn't say no to Roger Bobo who used that tuba with the LA Phil in their Hollywood Bowl season. Sold it but a few years later got another Piggy to use when the Willson 3050r is too weighty to haul around. The Monette Parana 94 mp works pretty good as does the much less expensive G&W Bayamo. Watch out for dents if you haul the Piggy in a gig bag. Unlike the Willson the Piggy will dent rather easily.

The piggy is a "big" tuba in a "small" tuba package. I really like these tubas, as well, and they would make a great 2nd CC to go with the Willson . . . the upcharge for a factory 5th valve is substantial compared to some other tuba manufacturers, though.

[EdFirth]

According to Mr Sear, John Fletcher first said it looked like a "little piggy" while playing through that first batch at Walter's studio. Paul C.(Plilly Orch) also bought six of them. I got down there a few days laterand there were only six left but I didn't have the money to buy one anyway. They are great. The Cerveny company actually called them the "Opera Model" the theory being that they sound big but don't take up alot of room in a crowded pit. Ed

[Alex C]

(edited)
Steve, the older Piggy tubas (Walter Sear era) can be really great or just average. In my experience, the newer ones run more like good-to-below average. On newer Piggy's, check that the C in the staff and the C below the staff are in tune. Avoid those horns which are out of tune.

The 5th partial is usually flat in any case.

[basspiper]

On newer Piggy's, check that the C in the staff and the C below the staff are in tune. Avoid those horns.

Sorry if I'm being slow, but are you saying the ones with the C's in tune are likely to be a mess in other ways?

Thanks,
Dave

[eupher61]

On newer Piggy's, check that the C in the staff and the C below the staff are in tune. Avoid those horns.

Sorry if I'm being slow, but are you saying the ones with the C's in tune are likely to be a mess in other ways?

Thanks,
Dave

looks like Alex adjusted his comment.

I had a c.1978 Piggy, had the Sanders name on it, from then Custom Music. Great horn. I had a trumpet hook added to the first valve slide so I could pass my hand through the horn and move the slide, instead of reaching over it. Made a lot of difference in my comfort playing. Mine was also unlacquered when I had it. Big, deep, beautiful sound, and I really only used the 1st slide for a couple of pitches.
I sold it when I realized how much I really loved playing F for everything. It went through a fire, was relacquered as part of that settlement, and apparently was at least as good a player as before. Maybe unlacquered isn't the answer.

If I ever get a contrabass again, it probably would be the first thing I'd look for. Then, the YamaYork.

[skeath]

Not an expert on these, but I did own one for 3 days. It played well, valves were good, and tuning was passable, but there were two things I didn't like:

1. Ergonomics. I could not reach over it with my left arm, to reach music, adjust a stand, etc. That's a deal-killer for me.

2. I thought the construction was cheap, and the sound was coarse and unrefined. It sounded like it was made of sheet metal. You get what you pay for.

I'm probably picky, and that used instrument may not be representative of the class, but I just wasn't willing to settle for it, and luckily I didn't have to.

[taylorbeaty]

i played on the BBb "piggy" back in high school. they're good horns with a good low range. seemed out of tune of some stuff, the f was way sharp

[toobagrowl]

The Cerveny CC "Piggy" is a great tuba. I tooted on one once or twice and liked it a lot.
I remember seeing and clearly hearing Gary Ofenloch on a Cerveny Piggy with the Boston Pops on PBS back in the late 90's. What a sound!!
Like some posters have said: it plays and sounds much bigger than it looks.
A good "Piggy" can project sound like a 5/4 tuba in the right hands

[mbell]

I've owned a Piggy for about 25 years now and it was my only horn for most of that time. I bought it from Vince at Tuba Exchange and fell in love with it as soon as I played it. Of course the great price helped too. Mine was made in the 1970s, which I understand was a time of variable standards for Cerveny. I must have gotten a good sample. E and F right below the staff are a little high, but otherwise it mainly only has the common tuning quirks like having to play D in the staff with 1+3, E with 1+2, etc. Pushing first valve slide all the way in also works on the D if you want to play it with just 1.

Some have grumbled about reaching over it with the left hand, but I find running your arm under the top bow works very well. I even played around with running my arm through the 4th valve slide so I could adjust it with my forearm. Overall I really like the ergonomics. It is a very easy horn to hold. With a strap it is not even too bad to play with standing. Yes, the metal is soft. I can't set it on its bell or it will fall right over.

Lately, I've spent most of my time on a recently acquired Cerveny Kaiser because I wanted a 5th valve and something with a bigger sound. I play in a British style brass band where I need to play very often in the low register. But I kinda miss the little Piggy. It is a fun horn to play, and as others have mentioned, it puts out a big sound for such a small looking instrument.

mike

[Tubaman2365]

I had a piggy in college and found it to be a very versatile horn. I loved playing it! I could make it work on solo and quintet literature, and also with orchestra. For someone who can only afford one horn, there are a lot worse choices out there than a piggy!

[mdc2d]

Didn't Craig Knox record the first Center City BQ album on a Piggy?

I think you are correct, really changes the way you listen to that album. He sounds excellent on that recording.

[basspiper]

by eupher61 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:54 pm

looks like Alex adjusted his comment.

Thanks, Alex, and eupher61, I would've completely missed the edit.
Dave

[mdc2d]

Didn't Craig Knox record the first Center City BQ album on a Piggy?

I think you are correct, really changes the way you listen to that album. He sounds excellent on that recording.

From Knox's website: I previously played a Cerveny "Piggy" CC tuba, and a B&S PT-4 CC tuba in the CCBQ. The Cerveny was used for the following albums: Center City Brass Quintet, Street Song, and On The Town.

[Stephen Shoop]

Thanks to everyone who has responded to this post. Your thoughts have given me a lot of good information.

[J.c. Sherman]

I used to borrow an "Octave+" Pig in college, and I really thought it was almost too easy to play! Wonderful instrument, and just had to play your middle Cs 2&3 and everything else was okay.

I owned my own for a while and loved it. The high range and pitch was absurdly good! The instrument had sharp main and 4th valve slides, but after making a custom main slide crook and extending the 4th valve slide... HOLY $#!+!!! It was terrific.

In the end, it was a stone on the path for me and I sold it, but not because there was anything wrong with it... phenomenal compact instrument. Huge bore, sound bigger than it has any right to, it's a great "do it all" tuba. My quintet adored it.

J.c.S.