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Folks, I just recently picked up a Conn Helleberg mouthpiece.

I noticed the newer ones say 7B or whatever on them, and the very old ones have a different shank design, but mine just simply says Conn-Helleberg.

See pic. Just wondering age and if its considered a 7B or 120S

It plays fantastically, still getting used to the rim (was playing a 24AW).

pic attached

thanks for any info!

Mark

I have a 1970 vintage Conn-Helleberg mouthpiece that is similar to you picture (mine had the gold plating on it), and like yours, it has no numbering on it. Some measurements should be able to tell you for sure what it is. Here is a link to an excellent database of tuba mouthpiece measurements:

http://www.dwerden.com/mouthpieces/tuba.cfm" target="_blank

According to that excellent source, the Conn-Helleberg 120S would have a rim (inside) measurement of 32.5mm, medium deep cup, 7.3mm rim width, and 8.1mm throat.
The 7B would have a rim (inside) measurement of 31.5mm, also a medium deep cup, 8.3mm rim width, and 8.5mm throat. If you have a set of calipers, or know a friend that has some, you should be able to quickly tell what you have.

I also have a Helleberg-Getzen mouthpiece with a #80 on it, and have been able to find little information on it, but I think it is very similar to the 7B mouthpiece or a Schilke 66. I can tell you it does have the 7B measurements. Hope that helps!

Interesting, mine measures 1.275" (32.4mm) inside diameter and a rim of .39" (9.9mm)

Doesn't seem to measure up to the modern 120s or 7B. Maybe an older model?

mark

Conn Helleberg mouthpieces have been subject to variation almost from the very beginning. Of the "originals" I have owned, seen, or played on there were several variations of size and rim contour. My last original, which was most likely actually one of G Helleberg's (unfortunately stolen a few years ago) would have been nearly identical to the 7-B model as far as rim size but with a slightly flatter contour and sharper inner edge.

One of the best early copies of the example Jake normally used was one made by Cuesnon around 63. It, though, had a slightly small shank. About 65 Conn started making "Hellebergs" again and it was a wider opening and I think that is what you have. About 66 they supposedly 'found' a cutter which had not been worn and resharpened to the point of producing a larger opening and it became the 7-B.

Of the current Schilke Hellebergs the 7-B is pretty well the same as the smaller originals (including Jake's and same as the Cuesnon copy) with the Schilke Helleberg II approximating the larger versions for rim dimensions.

Before my original was stolen I could very comfortably change between the Schilke, original and 7-B with the only real difference being the slight difference in contour.

Currently I am using a custom made Schilke Helleberg with the Schmidt backbore and a custom Schilke Helleberg F with an identical rim. The F is normally made with the S.H. II rim size and contour. If I want a bit lighter and brighter sound on my King I use the F which makes a nice "solo" mp.

The 7Bs always felt so teeny... in all dimensions!

The current "Jake" copy I play is the Yamaha CB... and it's really excellent, and the replica version is the best deal out there!

J.c.S.

To me the 120S has a deeper cup than the 7B.