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What horns have you played that were any of these:

-Inefficient (put lots of air in, not as much sound comes out)?
-Moderately stuffy?
-'Dead' (plays real small, bell doesn't ring)?
-Sound doesn't really get past the bell


What other descriptive characteristics did I miss?


The horns I would choose would be: Mirafone 1295 CC, Yamaha 201 BBb, Yamaha 321 BBb

A Mirafone 186 four valve CC. I'm not saying the 186 is a bad horn. In fact, I love them. This horn was just beat half to death.

983

When I haven't been practicing much, most tubas seem very inefficient. Once I start putting in a little face time, they become remarkably efficient. Seriously.
The majority of efficiency seems to come from my chops.

I have a Jupiter valve trombone in C which shipped with a 12 C mouthpiece. The sound was very good, but when I experimented with some smaller mouthpieces (Schilke 40, Bach 19) the horn became even more alive and robust.

Ace

Cerveny, anything.

ShoelessWes wrote:Cerveny, anything.

A couple of my cervenys played by themselves....
Oh...I've only had a couple....

edit: My two Cervenys

bloke wrote:<SIDEBAR>

There certainly are bad ("inefficient") instruments, but there are also some players who don't understand the instruments they've been dealt.

</SIDEBAR>

A poor craftsman blames his tools.

jonesbrass wrote:
A poor craftsman blames his tools.

Except golf clubs.
Dave

jonesbrass wrote: A poor craftsman blames his tools.

Well, it certainly couldn't be my fault I don't have a "world class sound." Not in today's USA.

Besson 3 Valve compensating BBb

I agree on the Besson and B&H BBb
The Ebs has varied so much it's hard to judge without a date behind the model.

"efficiency" is an interesting term to apply to tubas in general. I like a big, round sound that is difficult to achieve using a small tuba. My favorites are the Miraphone 1291 and the 5/4 Marzans (Bohm & Meinl).

I work my butt off trying to get that kind of sound out of a Yamaha YBB-103... and never get there.

It seems like I can just 'breathe' into one of the larger horns. Some folks think that the larger horns take a lot of air. There may be some truth in them taking a lot of air. But... overall... it seems to me that I use A LOT less energy getting the sound I want.

A high volume of air with less pressure suits me just fine.

jonesbrass wrote:

bloke wrote:<SIDEBAR>

There certainly are bad ("inefficient") instruments, but there are also some players who don't understand the instruments they've been dealt.

</SIDEBAR>

A poor craftsman blames his tools.

As much truth as there is in this simple adage, the more I think about it the more I think it is flawed. In my experience the best craftsmen - in every field - care a lot about their tools, make sure they have the best and most appropriate tools available for the work they do, and take good care of them.

i think the reason the Besson horns and the B&H are deemed inefficient is because they are built like tanks with heavy guage brass and lots of bracing. So they do not get "edgy" or "colorful" like other lighter weight horns, but rather maintain the same dark tone throughout their dynamic range. This is a reason many people do not care for them. I believe however that the sound indeed does carry out to the audience. It just does not have that quick, up-close response that other horns have. So I guess you could say it is less efficient, if you equate efficiency with the ability to get that "edgier" type of tone.

This is one reason I started using a shallower cup mouthepice (blokepiece solo) which helps give a little more edge or definition to their sound.

At least that is my story and I am sticking to it....

kenk

Not really inefficient - it makes a big sound - but the MW 2155 is an air hog, IMHO. Borrowing one for a couple days and it takes a lot of air for it to play the way I want it to.

basspiper wrote:

jonesbrass wrote:
A poor craftsman blames his tools.

Except golf clubs.
Dave

and disc golf discs.

Bob Kolada wrote:983

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I find my 983 to speak very well. I can get an edge on the tone if desired and I can fill the hall with little to no problem. I love my 983 and find it to be a very efficient horn, but I also know that we all have differing experiences and are entitled to our own opinions.

glangfur wrote:

jonesbrass wrote:

bloke wrote:<SIDEBAR>

There certainly are bad ("inefficient") instruments, but there are also some players who don't understand the instruments they've been dealt.

</SIDEBAR>

A poor craftsman blames his tools.

As much truth as there is in this simple adage, the more I think about it the more I think it is flawed. In my experience the best craftsmen - in every field - care a lot about their tools, make sure they have the best and most appropriate tools available for the work they do, and take good care of them.

This will be nit-picky...

I agree with your statement that great craftsmen have great tools. However, the issue of the adage is that a poor craftsmen blames is tools, not that a great craftsmen can work on poor tools. Indeed, some people I know have purchased high end instruments and equipment and still blame the horn for their mistakes. (eg. "It's not my fault I couldn't play that high note didn't sound, my new mouthpiece is not great for high range"). I think a poor musician will still find issue with the best of horns and blame the horns instead of recognizing that they lack practice.

Ultimately, there was no need to assert the adage is flawed. In any given statement, one should never expect that the opposite holds true....

For reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism" target="_blank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmativ ... ve_premise" target="_blank

This is an interesting discussion. I will just submit that I agree, great craftsmen do work with the tools that allow them to produce items of the highest quality. At the same time, those same craftspeople are fully capable of creating great things with "inferior" tools, as well. Ever witness a pro grab an "inferior" or "stuffy" or "crappy" tuba and make it sound like a million bucks? The magic is in the person, not necessarily the tools. Is a great player going to play on the best thing they can find/afford? Absolutely.