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This is a sort of two question forum. I have a Yamaha 3 valve Ybb-201. I am going to be a music teacher (sophomore in college) and i recently picked up a CC 5 valve miraphone that my college has. I am looking for a tuba, but i am unsure about whether i want to stick with a BBb or CC. Currently my other option (from my college horns) is the St. Petersburg from TE. I have thought of used and new but i want to keep it below 3-4000 and i have thought about the TE CC tubas.

that is it if it makes any sense. Thanks in advance!

Jared

Mack brass has clones of a miraphone CC's for about 2000. just talk to him. they are great horns

If I were in your position, I'd seriously consider the Mirafone 184 5 valve CC which is listed here under ebay. It looks like it would be available in your price range.

For somebody who has access to the 186 supplied by the school it would make a nice companion for your private use. They are nice horns and one advantage is that they are not something requiring a semi to cart around. Keep your axe at home and avoid the inevitable damage caused by hauling it around. Use the 186 at school. Your investment, assuming you take good care of it, will not be depreciating like a new or a lot of other used instruments.

It would last ages and when you are out teaching instead of playing some big time orchestra gig will be something you can pick up and just enjoy playing when you aren't spending 3 to 6 hours a day practicing and still make some sweet music.

What type of playing do you do and realistically see yourself doing in the future?
My favorite contrabass tuba, and the only one I could really see myself spending money on, is the Miraphone 1291 Bb. Big sound, fun to play, great intonation and low range,... Try one!

Used King 2341 or VMI 103

DP wrote: (Anyone else noticing a pattern of new posters "seeking purchase advice"
who are then given immediate advice from...fans of a certain supply chain?)

That's one of the patterns I've noticed. Another one is posts by the same despisers of that supply chain who invariably pop up and say the same things in response.



Another discussion board I participate in related to college basketball decided about five years ago that all bickering about the coach had to go in a single thread that was a sticky at the top. Maybe we should have something similar here: a sticky thread into which all debate about Chinese tubas and their suppliers has to take place.

There's a Meinl-Weston 32 for sale on the board here for $2,500. I used to own one, and it's a lot of tuba for not much dough.

Buy it!

bort wrote:There's a Meinl-Weston 32 for sale on the board here for $2,500. I used to own one, and it's a lot of tuba for not much dough.

Buy it!

I see it is currently "on hold" but, would not argue against that idea. I have previously owned one, used it professionally, and quite enjoyed it.

If you were happy sticking with BBb and thus avoiding the possible frustrations that can come from changing, a used, reconditioned King from "TubaTinker", Dan Schultz could be a very economical way to get a good instrument. I have one which I got from him in December and am very happy with it. Former professionals playing in the band I am currently playing with have commented very favourably on its nice sound. You would have a fair amount of change left from your lower price range figure. He may have something else, such as a very nice Marzan.

There would be other possible sources and knowing where you were could help in offering suggestions.

DP wrote:(Anyone else noticing a pattern of new posters "seeking purchase advice"
who are then given immediate advice from...fans of a certain supply chain?)

On that note, if you're sticking with BBb and on a budget, pick up one of those old German B&S stencils (Sonora, Karl Zeiss, etc). Definitely a better tuba than you would expect for the price (generally sub-$2000).

So a question for someone having more experience than me. I am speaking generically is there much of a difference in play ability between CC and BBb? Or is it mostly just preference? I have played a quite a few BBb but only one CC and it is a very nice one, I love how easy it is to play through the lower register with just about any dynamic. But I have played a few BBb miraphones that I honestly didn't care for in the least bit. I guess I am saying is that I need a tuba that can carry me through ( or at least be a good tuba ) to take me through my degree and on through possibly the rest of my playing career. But be cheap enough that I can afford it and that is why i don't mind if it is a used horn.

I hope that makes sense. I am also a firm believer in trying out my tuba before I buy it. However that seems like it will complicate things......

BBb tends to have a little fuzz in the sound compared to CC. But that will also vary by model and specific instrument. My opinion (which could be wrong) is that CC tubas as a whole seem to be better than BBb because manufacturers perceive and market CC as "professional" instruments, while BBb can be anything from utter junk to absolutely wonderful. The bigger issue is going to be the individual horn and how it cooperates with you, so try before you buy.

The BBb being 12.5% longer than the CC is enough to make it heavier in nearly all aspects
I keep a BBb thou for Brass Band purposes as fingering/intonation easily gets a bit tricky.

Levaix wrote:BBb tends to have a little fuzz in the sound compared to CC.

Fuzz in the sound!? That sounds bad! I certainly don't want fuzz in the sound, even a little bit!

On the other hand, a lot of players have BBb tubas, more than CC. Maybe they play the BBbs because they want a little more fuzz!

Hup

Ken Herrick wrote:If I were in your position, I'd seriously consider the Mirafone 184 5 valve CC which is listed here under ebay. It looks like it would be available in your price range.

I would actually disagree. While the 184 is fun for solos and very small ensembles (quintets, etc) it will not put the fat round sound under a band or other large group that the tuba is called upon to do. Most music teachers wind up playing in one or more groups, and they will be looking for a tuba that sounds like a tuba.
Don't get me wrong, the 184 is a great second or third tuba, but once you graduate you will probably not have the means to buy another couple of horns right away, and you will want something more fullsized than a vintage 184.

hup_d_dup wrote:

Levaix wrote:BBb tends to have a little fuzz in the sound compared to CC.

Fuzz in the sound!? That sounds bad! I certainly don't want fuzz in the sound, even a little bit!

On the other hand, a lot of players have BBb tubas, more than CC. Maybe they play the BBbs because they want a little more fuzz!

Hup

It's not as bad as it sounds, I promise. As hrender mentioned, the difference between keys can be well within the range of the difference between two horns of the same key. A bad horn is going to be bad whatever the key, and a good one will still be good. It's just a matter of finding what fits you best.

(Although in my opinion you'll have a larger choice of good horns if you go with CC, just because that's what manufacturers perceive the professional market wants. More top-level BBb's are being produced lately compared to before, it'll just take a while to catch up.)

My recommendation would be to let your ears help with the decision. Remember, in Germany and Austria as well as Russia and many other European countries, the BBb (rotary only) is considered the only professional tuba. If you show up at an audition with a piston horn or a CC, you will probably not even get a chance to show how good you are as that horn doesn't fit their "model". Listen to the New York Philharmonic, the Chicago Symphony and any other American Orchestras. Then compare this sound to the Berlin Philharmonic and the Vienna Philharmonic and many of the other orchestras around Germanic Europe and get a feel for how a BBb, when played well, works in the ensemble.

Actually, many of the big orchestral tuba parts were written with a BBb tuba in mind, Wagner, Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, etc. There are a few high end players that are using BBb more and more for many of these works as they feel the BBb does tend to fit in better.

A CC has a bit tighter sound where a BBb may have just a tad more depth to it. I also look at the overtones. You are in a section with Bb trombones, horns in F and in many cases trumpets in Bb. Things just might line up just a little better in this situation with a BBb tuba rather than a CC. Personally I use a BBb for some things but a CC more often.

These are my opinions, based on what I've seen and on the quantities of instruments sold in various countries. Originally the CC tubas were made mainly for American players and were considered "professional" instruments here. In Germany, a professional instrument is in BBb.

Just an observation helping to muddy up the waters a bit.

Roger

Roger, what Bb do you use?

Thanks everyone for your insight. I taking what you have all said in mind, I think that BBb And CC doesnt matter, but what the horn sounds like instead (as some of you have stated). So I guess I am left to one more question that I understand I need to make, but it is nice to have feedback from such knowledgable sources, and that is what tuba- or rather what Tubas would be acceptable as to the fact that i will probably get a used horn. I really like the St. Petersburg, I love the tone that it can produce. However I like a Miraphone that I am playing with my school. It is a 5 valve CC I think a 5/4 size. It plays lows beautiful and it is amazingly easy to play quiet. I have not liked any of the other miraphones that i have played (some dinky 4 valve BBb and one 184 5 valve C (the little one you talked about earlier.) But i am open to all the suggestions there are..


What do you think about Yamaha ?

Thanks Jared

My personal BBb is a Miraphone 1291 5 valve model (yes, a piston horn). I believe it was the very first one they made after the prototype. It is a joy to play and has a really warm and easy to play low register. If I had the money (and the space) I would probably be standing in line for one of the new Miraphone Siegfried’s, but the wife would kill me.

I would also suggest that, since you plan to pursue playing in college, that you find the school(s) that you want to attend and then ask the teachers in those institutions what horn they would want you to show up playing. Some folks can be very specific as to what horn you should be playing, but since they are going to be with you potentially for 4 years, you might want to show up with something that makes them happy and that you can play well.

I had one of the first Yamaha 621S F tubas they made, and I loved the way it played, but I absolutely hated the sound of it. It just didn't really work for the way I play. Since I didn't like how I sounded, I would only drag it out when I had to for an upcoming performance. Find a horn that you love to listen to yourself play.

Roger

BBb tends to have a little fuzz in the sound compared to CC.

Ahh Bull....

A fuzz or airy quality in your tone will come from a bad buzz quality in the mouthpiece or a bad mouthpiece fit/gap in the horn and can exist equally in any and all horns. Unless you are dealing with some sort of mechanical problem, most of the time it, is from a bad match between the horn, the mouthpiece and your embouchure or an immature embouchure. This is why you find players on mouthpiece searches all the time on this site.

Having played BBb, CC and Eb over the years I'd would recommend staying away from trying to transition from the BBb into the CC. The only advantage I know of in making the transition is in the ease of fingering runs when you are stuck playing in those notorious sharp key keys so often encountered in an orchestral setting. You can find great horns with fantastic sound characteristics that match or beat the CC, in both Eb and BBb. A large 5/4 Eb would probably be the most versatile horn you could buy. You will be able to drop down into the deep full BBb characteristics of a tuba by pressing the 4th valve and still have the light characteristic need for solo or small groups the rest of the time.

If you are playing orchestral music all the time it makes sense to have a CC, but I have never found any advantage in having taken up the CC while playing American music in an Army Band, or in any American Wind Ensemble or in British style brass bands or in any Dixieland Bands. In the teaching environment you will have little need for the CC. Taking up the CC while I was at the Military School of Music was a massive waste of my time and energy. Unless you intend to be playing at the professional symphony level, except for some preparatory collegiate playing for the symphony scene, you won't have any need to ever be playing the CC.

As a side note… in every audition I have ever been through, I was never asked what equipment I was using. They were only interested in my technical ability and quality of my sound that was actually reaching them in their seats.