TubeNet

Did they finally clone the CC 1291? I thought they had only done the BBb, but I haven't been keeping track of all the clones.

It certainly looks like a 1291 CC
http://tubaexchange.com/product-detail. ... 0TE-1295CL" target="_blank

Has anyone played it yet?

Isn't that a rebranded Jinbao 450, which has been getting mixed reviews?

Played that tuba at the Tuba Exchange booth at Midwest. Yuck. I really don't have anything nice to say about that horn. Worst China made horn I have ever played. Just my opinion.

Nope, not a clone. At least, if it is, it's been heavily modified.

Tubajug wrote: It certainly looks like a 1291 CC
http://tubaexchange.com/product-detail. ... 0TE-1295CL" target="_blank" target="_blank

Nothing "Miraphone" about that tuba. That is a Chinese attempted copy of a B&S PT piston valve gut section with a HB-21 body & bell.

The word on that particular horn was that it sucks. Until someone realized the valve slide/s were too long.


It's so odd the nicer horns that have been copied- Hirsbrunner Bb, 1291 Bb, Thein contrabone, 981,... I know there are lots of cheaper, more student-oriented horns but the upper ones seem to be odd choices.

Bob Kolada wrote:The word on that particular horn was that it sucks. Until someone realized the valve slide/s were too long.

Naw when I played it the open horn was also terrible. Nasty valves and slides. The fifth valve linkage really needed a design redo. Really like I said before there was nothing nice to say about that horn. Cutting slides might help a little but it was just awful. I wouldn't even take one for free.

Why is it they try to make on from scratch when there's so many good ones to be copied

It's just so.............un-Chineese

So... wait... I'm confused... the Chinese should man up and make their own designs, right? But they aren't good at that, so they should just stick to the good copies... but copying is some kind of national (ethnic? racial?) trait that deserves an eyeroll... but...

Screw it, I'll just practice my Japanese built telecaster and sell my tubas.

Oooooo......someone's touchy

If they were to develop their own designs, they should do the calculations and testing needed to actually have the product ready.

Not release a half finished proto for customer to pay full retail.

JinBao are good enogh to do so if they wanted.
It'a just not part of what they do ATM

Lectron wrote:Oooooo......someone's touchy

If they were to develop their own designs, they should do the calculations and testing needed to actually have the product ready.

Not release a half finished proto for customer to pay full retail.

JinBao are good enogh to do so if they wanted.
It'a just not part of what they do ATM

Who? Who's touchy? Good lord, this place is completely over my head.

Lectron wrote:...Not release a half finished proto for customer to pay full retail...

Hmm, what seems to be common practice for everyone in the software industry...

Lectron wrote:...JinBao are good enogh to do so if they wanted...

Is there maybe a connection with what the buyers are prepared to pay and/or which quality they accepts? FWIH the Chinese can produce things with the quality that the buyer requires if the buyer are prepared to pay the cost. Quality dependent of price or vice versa or what the buyers accepts like so many other places... And I have said it before, when I buy Chinese made items in Japan it is much higher quality than when I buy Chinese stuff in Sweden...

bloke wrote:

Cool.

Q: "Is this a nice tuba?"

A: What's wrong with racism, guys?

Lingon wrote: And I have said it before, when I buy Chinese made items in Japan it is much higher quality than when I buy Chinese stuff in Sweden...

And that is part of the problem....

Buying top quality from China and Taiwan i possible but expensive. I do that all the time.
People tend to think that everything coming from China is crap becourse they can make crap.

Well...we can make crap in the western world too, but we make expensive crap.
People don't tend to want that.

Saying that this particular instrument is a poor design and that it wouldn't be made in the western world is not racism.
And for what it's worth. Making it is one thing. JinBao does nothing to push it to customers.

The retailer on the other hand. Fully awared of it's weaknesses. They are the rotten link here. They are the one making money actually pushing it.
Am I a racist now calling a bunch of western dudes rotten

The Chinese are not the only ones who can produce something of dubious quality.......... This past week I got a french horn in to see what I could do about its very poor tuning characteristics. It is, unless I did some major reworking of the valves, NOT possible to align the valves properly. The ports simply do not line up anywhere near correctly. The F & Bb sides are skewed several degrees around the valve axis That besides the el cheapo way of making the casings - no bottom bearing - just a worn, spot milled surface where the bottom rotor bearing makes contact and the first valve leaked so badly before some work that pushing the F side slide in made the Bb side slide pop out. I didn't think a Conn could be so bad. No wonder the Japs nearly killed off US instrument making.

Admittedly, it is somewhat better than an early 1970's Lark cornet (Taiwan) which could be totally taken apart without using a torch.

Tried a 'made in china' Bach trumpet?
Instead of accepting that quality cost money the fall for the same
'we can make it even cheaper if you want..'

If they ordered their stuff on their own spec and followed it up, it probably
wouldn't be a problem. Well at least it's not a big problem for Yamaha.
It would be more expensive thou, and

Money talks....

Lectron wrote:...If they ordered their stuff on their own spec and followed it up, it probably wouldn't be a problem. Well at least it's not a big problem for Yamaha...

And we are back again to when buying Chinese stuff in Japan it is higher quality, even if the price is the same or even lower than in Sweden. I think it is much about a lazyness in accepting the Chinese stuff as worse. I believe the Japanese send it back if not as specified. Then also for some, the, in some cases, bad quality would always be arguments for dizzing Chinese stuff, even the great items and even if it is made in other places... The same happened with Japanese things many years ago.

(Btw, I got a cheapo large bore Chinese made trombone some days ago, not from one of the TN sponsors though. It was great right out of the box...)

The problem is that "China" is such a huge place, its impossible to keep making generalizations. The other problem is that its hard for a lot of people to tell "good China" from "bad China".

Regarding the model in question here, pass on it. You can do far better, Chinese or otherwise.

bort wrote:The other problem is that its hard for a lot of people to tell "good China" from "bad China".

A good retailer could, should & would
Unfortunately most retailers claims to be just that...

The one and only of this model I have now has had its slides cut so it plays fairly well in tune and is actually now a reasonably good CC. Has a nice broad tone.

Anyone in the UK who is looking for an inexpensive piston 5/4 CC is welcome to visit and try to see how they like. I still do not think it plays as wells as the rotary 4/4 CC and have no intention of ordering any more. The one I have is likely to remain the only of this tuba in the world with WESSEX on the bell!