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Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:03 am
by Peach
bloke wrote:modelerdc wrote:Harvey settled on the Conn 2, a nice mouthpiece close in size and characteristics to the Helleberg 7B. He said one reason for chosing this mouthpiece is that he could find one anywhere should his get lost. I have one, typical flat Conn rim with a well defined inner edge, funnel style cup, a good mpc for those who don't require a really big one.
Conn 2/7B is an OK mouthpiece...' not terribly dissimilar to the Laskey 30H. ' not my favorite, but easily qualifies as "a mouthpiece that works".
Also, I believe, the 7B was used by John Fletcher more than is given credit for on the Eb.
Anyone know the story about Jacobs sending Fletcher a Helleberg or two to use - presumably for the Holton C?
24AW's work great for a lot of players over here but I can see if folks grow up used to quite different designs, it might seem like a strange choice.
I've just switched on Eb from a shallow piece to a much deeper one with a pretty large throat (ie. quite 24AW-esque in those regards), but with a narrower rim and a wider opening internal diameter.
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:22 am
by modelerdc
The one time I meet Fletcher, in 1980 as I recall he was still using a 24AW, asked why he said it was the largest mpc he could find in Britain at the time he started playing tuba. Slightly off topic asked why he used an E flat, he said when he started tuba (from horn!) he had a good E flat but did not have a good F! At some point in time, don't know the year, he meet with some of the brass players from the Chicago symphony. I'm telling this story 2nd hand, so bear that in mind, stories sometimes morph with retelling. Anyway by this time Fletcher was using a Holton CC when he thought it was appropriate. He mention to Jacobs that he felt that he hadn't found the mpc that really worke the best with his Holton CC. Jacobs had Fletcher try a Vintage Conn Helleberg (not the same as either the Current Helleberg or the 7B) Fletcher quickly found it worked better on the CC and when He tried to return it to Jacobs, Jacobs said to keep it, he had several like it. At this point Jay Friedman, who was present, said something like aren't you the lucky boy! So this became the lucky boy mpc, which I recall was the basis for one of the Wick mpcs, the 2L if it remember. On youtube you can find some videos done for British television with Fletcher as soloist. The mpc he using looks like a Conn 2. So, it's well known that Fletcher established himself as a world class player with a 24AW on a Besson E flat, but it's also known that he played, in additon to E flat, CC and F tubas and used other mpcs, at least later on.
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:25 pm
by euphomate
Just as an aside. Yamaha supply one of their 66D4's with some of the tubas they produce as the stock mp. One came with a YEB321 I bought quite some years back. It looks like a copy of a VB 24AW, but I notice it is a tad wider in the cup, according to Yamaha specs, than the 24AW. Has anyone ever compared these two pieces with each other? Does the 66D4 sound/feel/react the same as a 24AW, or is there some subtle difference between the two. You can usually pick up a Yamaha mp cheaper than a Bach, and certainly a Wick.
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:34 am
by MikeW
fairweathertuba wrote:
One more thing, I remember some bloke (not "bloke", but some bloke) possibly a bloke from the UK who had a spreadsheet with the specifications listed for quite a variety of mp's. Anyone have a link for that webpage with the spreadsheet?
Possibly this:
http://www.dwerden.com/mouthpieces/tuba.cfm
That link was ok before I posted this (I checked) but it is now broken
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:31 am
by Lectron
Neptune wrote:fairweathertuba wrote:So, the guys in the top brass bands really use 24AW's?
A lot do and probably the majority of orchestral pros too. In fact I would go so far as to say the 24AW almost defines the British tuba sound
My experience with the compensating tubas is that I prefer them with a large bore MP
Another thing thou...I don't really feel the MP contribute that much playing the compensating ones.
Funny as I feel In need to 'shape' the tone much more in my mouth, having a large resonant chamber
than playing a larger bore rotary valve where I'm much more picky about the MP.
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:24 am
by peter birch
MikeW wrote:fairweathertuba wrote:
One more thing, I remember some bloke (not "bloke", but some bloke) possibly a bloke from the UK who had a spreadsheet with the specifications listed for quite a variety of mp's. Anyone have a link for that webpage with the spreadsheet?
Possibly this:
http://www.dwerden.com/mouthpieces/tuba.cfm
It could be Andycat, although I can't find it at the moment
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:27 am
by AndyCat
peter birch wrote:MikeW wrote:fairweathertuba wrote:
One more thing, I remember some bloke (not "bloke", but some bloke) possibly a bloke from the UK who had a spreadsheet with the specifications listed for quite a variety of mp's. Anyone have a link for that webpage with the spreadsheet?
Possibly this:
http://www.dwerden.com/mouthpieces/tuba.cfm
It could be Andycat, although I can't find it at the moment
It was, and I've made it available here, although it isn't up to date!:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23088415/TubaMo ... isons2.xls
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:37 am
by sousaphone68
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48245&p=416694&hili ... df#p416694" target="_blank
Link above to a post from Imperiali with a PDF showing how DW pieces compare to their similar rivals
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:29 am
by peter birch
This is really interesting and enlightening to read, but I'm not sure that it is an entirely unbiased account of the Denis Wick mouthpieces
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:03 pm
by MikeW
MikeW wrote:fairweathertuba wrote:
One more thing, I remember some bloke (not "bloke", but some bloke) possibly a bloke from the UK who had a spreadsheet with the specifications listed for quite a variety of mp's. Anyone have a link for that webpage with the spreadsheet?
Possibly this:
http://www.dwerden.com/mouthpieces/tuba.cfm
That link was ok before I posted this (I checked) but it is now broken
It's back up now
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:47 pm
by PaulTkachenko
What's Bloke's take on the 66D4? I use one for my Eb and it's great. Would I be better off with that instead of my 24AW - I'm going to try it obviously.
This was playing on my mind on tonight's gig.
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:07 am
by Three Valves
cjk wrote:The inner diameter is too small.
The rim is too wide.
The throat is too large.
Seems like it might work OK on those "resistance filled" compensating E flat tubas.
That's exactly what I thought.
But nothing SOUNDS better in my JBB-210L MackBrunner.
Yet.
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:55 am
by Three Valves
The Kelly 24AW in Lexan feels a little wider. (Internal diameter)
And the rim a little less wide.
Feels great, sounds great.
Now I want to try one in stainless!!
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:41 am
by Wyvern
Wessex Tubas will soon have in stock the MOUNT VERNON 24AW. This is an exact reproduction of this iconic mouthpiece.
I have compared against Bach 24AW and think the Mount Vernon is the better with richer tone.
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:54 pm
by royjohn
Whaat does anyone know about my Benge 24AW? About the same as the others?
royjohn
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:56 pm
by Donn
I see at the top of the page, for whatever reason we were talking about the Conn 7B. Which I've seen dismissed as a bass tuba mouthpiece. Seriously, a lot of players seem to think the dimensions of this mouthpiece (and by extension I guess all the older similar Helleberg types) are too small for contrabass tuba. Its internal cup width is a hair bigger than the 24AW, though, according to the usual charts.
People who think the 24AW is an exceptionally suitable mouthpiece, might think about trying other mouthpieces - rarely considered these days - of similar dimensions. My current theory is that if you picked a bunch of average amateur tuba players, and tried them out on different mouthpieces, the number one thing that would improve their sound, as perceived by a listener, is a reduction of 1mm or more in the cup size.
Re: 24AW - in praise of
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:49 pm
by cambrook
For a long time I was not a fan of the 24AW, but I recently tried a couple of Mt Vernon ones. One of them was fantastic, the other wasn't. The Bach 24AW is one of the most inconsistent mouthpieces I've seen, and that includes the older Mt Vernon versions. Needless to say, some other mouthpieces labelled 24AW are even more varied. As a result, some may suit people more (or less) than the Bachs.
This is an exact reproduction of this iconic mouthpiece.
I think it's great that Wessex will have a copy of
a Mt Vernon 24AW, I just hope they've chosen a particularly good one to copy. I guess we'll have to wait and see
