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Anyone played them back to back?

The 3450 looks more like an 'American' styled piston tuba...

The 3450 plays bigger and is more free blowing than the 2145. I believe the bore is the same size, although the outer branches and bell on the 3450 are smaller than on the 2145. I've seen the 3450 listed someplace as a 3/4 size tuba, but I don't think that is at all accurate. Too me, it's a solid 4/4 horn.

Bill Troiano wrote:The 3450 plays bigger and is more free blowing than the 2145. I believe the bore is the same size, although the outer branches and bell on the 3450 are smaller than on the 2145. I've seen the 3450 listed someplace as a 3/4 size tuba, but I don't think that is at all accurate. Too me, it's a solid 4/4 horn.

A few years ago, Alan Baer described it to me as a 3/4 horn (and he designed this model), and great for quintet. In terms of playing with the NY Phil (or other high power group), I'm sure it is more like a 3/4 tuba.

Either way, glad to see that there's another 4/4 (or smaller) tuba out there!

I was in touch with Al about this horn and he told me he didn't know anything about it. As it turns out, Jon Sass had input on the design of this tuba, nicknamed, "The Sassy." Looking at the MW website, they list it as a 4/4. With the same bore as the 2145 (which they call a 4/4) and a bell an inch larger than on the 2145, how could the 3450 be considered a 3/4 tuba?

I am pretty sure that the 2145 has a smaller bell. Not nearly as much flair as the Sassy. I use to play a 2145 with Sam Pilafian's name engraved on the bell instead of 2145.

Bill Troiano wrote:I was in touch with Al about this horn and he told me he didn't know anything about it.

Well then I stand corrected, guess I remembered wrong!

It is possible Al was talking about a smaller CC for quintet use. That would make a lot of sense and that's what I originally thought the 3450 was until I asked him about it. Maybe, MW will come out with another 3/4 - 4/4 CC tuba of his design. The more the merrier!!

Bill Troiano wrote:Looking at the MW website, they list it as a 4/4. With the same bore as the 2145 (which they call a 4/4) and a bell an inch larger than on the 2145, how could the 3450 be considered a 3/4 tuba?

The main bows and body aren't as chunky as a 2145.

Bill Troiano wrote:... Looking at the MW website, they list it as a 4/4. With the same bore as the 2145 (which they call a 4/4) and a bell an inch larger than on the 2145, how could the 3450 be considered a 3/4 tuba?

I'm kinda interested in the MW3450. I'm not sure why. Seems like it would be similar to an EEb tuba only pitched in CC. I expect it's probably big enough for most uses. Meinl-Weston has been producing some extraordinarily fine instruments in recent years, so I would expect the 3450 to be super as well.

Not that it matters (nor are my comments directed at Bill even though I quoted him), but I do find the discussion of the "quarter size" of this tuba to be kinda funny.

It appears to be based on the copy of the Howard Johnson Mahillon tuba and it's various incarnations (2011TA, 2011FA, 2011RA).

MW considers the 2011xx tubas to be 1/2 sized.

Considering that the 6450 is a 6/4 and the 5450 is a 5/4, one might think the 3450 was expected to be a 3/4 CC tuba.

MW calls the 3450 "compact 4/4 size".

The bows of the 3450 appear to me to be much skinnier than the 2145, especially the bottom bow. The 3450 seems to combine skinny bows and a large bore valve section. If I had to order one or the other site unseen, I'd get the 3450 because I've played a 2145 before and was not a fan.

I suspect it's called a "compact 4/4" because most people don't buy 3/4 CC tubas.

I think what really matters is that it's a good tuba and whether or not it's large enough for the buyer's purposes.

cjk, I follow your logic for the naming/size of the 6540 and the 5450.

Here's what I think happened:
-- The 3450 is really a 4/4 tuba (normal, small, whatever)
-- The model number 4450 is already taken (it's an F tuba, the 5-valve version of the 4460).
-- 3450 was the next best choice for model number

bort wrote:cjk, I follow your logic for the naming/size of the 6540 and the 5450.

Here's what I think happened:
-- The 3450 is really a 4/4 tuba (normal, small, whatever)
-- The model number 4450 is already taken (it's an F tuba, the 5-valve version of the 4460).
-- 3450 was the next best choice for model number

Maybe you're right, but I think this happened (I'm totally making this up):

-- MW designed a a super 3/4+ CC and named it the 3450.
-- Oops. They realized almost nobody buys 3/4 CCs, so they better call it 4/4 so people will actually consider it while tuba shopping.

I mean, hey, why not call it the 4453 or the 4470?

MW is always consistent with their model numbers except when they're not. The real 4450 should be what's called the 2155 or 2000. Oh wait, shouldn't the 2000 be called the 2155/2 ???

German precision is great for manufacturing tubas. Not as great for marketing.

Maybe, we should fill them all with water (I think Bloke said this) and determine their size by how much water they hold - a 3, 4, 5, or 6 gallon tuba.

BTW - I did buy a 3450 from Baltimore Brass. I fell in love with it at the DC Conference. I was very impressed with the ergonomics - at 5'9", it just feels right for me to hold. It is a very free blowing tuba with a very open low register and comfortable valves for me, although I did put lighter valve springs in it. The pitch is excellent, although it has the usual tendencies, nothing uncomfortable to deal with - also long pulls on the 1, 3 and 4th valve slides. This tuba will replace my Gnagey CC, which is also a great tuba. I'll feel bad letting it go.

Unfortunately, I've had no place to play the 3450 yet, except for a couple of tuba quartet rehearsals. I never have much going on playing wise from Jan. through Apr. I'm going to get fairly busy beginning in 2 weeks and it will finally get a good test drive. The timing was good because I had to recover from my skin cancer surgery (another post) (5 weeks off the tuba). All went well with that, but I suppose I'll always have a scar there. It doesn't seem to affect my playing, although getting back into it was strange after 5 weeks off.

What were we talking about again? Sorry for the rambling!

Good to hear it went well Bill!

Thanks, guys!!

I guess you have to come to my living room to hear me play it, as nothing else is going on right now. I will be playing it on an Atlantic Wind Symphony concert on June 3 at 3pm at the Patchogue Theater.

http://www.atlanticwinds.org/" target="_blank

bort wrote:

Bill Troiano wrote:The 3450 plays bigger and is more free blowing than the 2145. I believe the bore is the same size, although the outer branches and bell on the 3450 are smaller than on the 2145. I've seen the 3450 listed someplace as a 3/4 size tuba, but I don't think that is at all accurate. Too me, it's a solid 4/4 horn.

A few years ago, Alan Baer described it to me as a 3/4 horn (and he designed this model), and great for quintet. In terms of playing with the NY Phil (or other high power group), I'm sure it is more like a 3/4 tuba.

Either way, glad to see that there's another 4/4 (or smaller) tuba out there!

One must also consider, Alan Baer is a GIANT. His definition of tuba sizes may be skewed

The description of the 2011 as 1/2 size is also debatable. First they called it a compact 4/4, later on they found it is 1/2 size...
In comparison to what other manufacturers call 3/4, I think it is a 3/4 horn too.