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Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:00 pm
by Subtone
Having now become more or less comfortable with the CC tuba, I have started noticing a few weird problems with certain notes:
2nd space C often gives me a double buzz until I am quite a bit past "warmed up." Especially if I slur up the octave from the C below the staff. Not B, not C#, but just the C. ?!?
With that in mind, I seem to have the most problems in between that note and the 1st line G. High range is fine (due to euphonium playing, I'm guessing) and my low range is quite reliable.
I also noticed that if I buzz octave glissandos up on the mouthpiece, when I get into the problem range, it's like there's a hole in my buzz.
Thoughts? Similar experiences?
An experienced tubist played my horn and had zero problems getting these notes to speak perfectly, by the way.
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:31 pm
by Doug Elliott
You are most likely switching airstream directions right at that point in your range. Maybe you're playing upstream below that, with the bottom lip directing the air up, and above that you're downstream, with the top lip directing the air down. It's best to keep the same airstream direction throughout your range so that doesn't happen.
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:13 pm
by Mark
Were you playing a BBb tuba before getting the CC?
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:25 pm
by eupher61
Focus on buzzing the individual pitches you're finding troublesome. Use a tuner--better still, a tuner and a recorder, so you can listen to tone also. Record in short segments, listen to 30 seconds or so. If something feels/sounds incredibly good to you, try to repeat it immediately and then listen to those two takes.
Often there are pitches where things simply don't want to work properly. Mine is 8th partial, major 3rd below the instrument pitch (2-3 valve combination). Every key tuba, I have to work at that pitch for a bit to make it work properly. Take your time, and LISTEN and use the tuner as an aid. It will get better.
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:12 am
by Roger Lewis
Since you mentioned that you play euphonium as well, I suspect that you have fallen into a little spot I call "coming close". If you have ever taught a young trombone student you can see that they know exactly where positions 1 through 4 are. After 4th position 5th, 6th and 7th are just "out there somewhere". Usually 5th position is like lightning - it never hits the same place twice.
Younger tuba players do this with the embouchure, just setting for any note in the area that you are trying to play in instead of a specific note, and usually on the low side. I have seen this quite a bit below low Bb. What is happening, from my experience, is that you are setting for a note a little lower than what you are intending to play, so the embouchure is just a tad on the soft side.
What happens is that the dominant lip (in most cases the upper lip) is buzzing the pitch you want but the non-dominant (lower lip) lip is set too soft and begins to oscillate at a frequency 1/2 the speed of the dominant lip, causing the double buzz. All you need to do is firm up the non-dominant lip ever so slightly and this should cure it.
To get used to the change you need to make, take your mouthpiece to a piano, play the C you are having trouble with on the horn and buzz that same note on the mouthpiece. If the double buzz starts in, try to firm up the non-dominant lip just a tad and it should go away. You are working on hitting specific pitches, not just trying to "come close". I think this will help with your issue.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
All the best to you.
Roger
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:36 pm
by JCalkin
A double buzz is one problem, a "hole in the buzz" or what I call "a missing note" is another.
If there is one note (or narrow range) that is very difficult to play, I find that the problem is a switch of airstream at that particular note or, less frequently, just that the embouchure muscles are reacting "funny" at that particular note.
Either way, I have found that there are a few things that work well as a remedy.
First, buzz not only the pitch(es) in question, but also those in the immediate vicinity. If the trouble note is second space C, for example, I would have you buzz from the G below that to the F above, covering a perfect 4th in each direction from the "bad" note. Glissando smoothly from the G up to the F and back, making sure to use a continuous, smooth airstream. Try to not let the rich buzz disappear (or lessen) as you work through the trouble note(s).
Next, stick the mouthpiece in the horn and do the same drill with all valves pushed down halfway.
The trick with the above is to NOT ACCEPT less than your best, richest buzz. I tell my students to "floor the gas" through the trouble notes, using the air to "power through." Also important is to have a confident attitude towards the notes in question. Usually I find that the psychological "this is my trouble note so I don't wanna sound bad so I'll back off the air" crap lasts far beyond when the actual physical/technical mastery of the note is done.
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:58 pm
by Bob Kolada
Is that note in tune? You may also be trying to play it in/out of tune.
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:46 pm
by swillafew
I tell my students to "floor the gas" through the trouble notes, using the air to "power through."
That sounds like a great strategy to me.
Buzzing the music away from the horn expedites the solution too.
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:47 pm
by Roger Lewis
You said that you were now "comfortable with Cc tuba, which tells me that you were probably a BBb player before. And you also play euphonium (in Bb). I believe that you are still buzzing a Bb and letting the horn center it for you to C. This means you are most likely on the bottom end of the C, again with the embouchure too relaxed to support what you are trying to do. Learn to play a C, not a Bb.
Also, the fast air as Josh recommended will tend to push the pitch up. I use this all the time when testing horns. This again says that you are probably on the low end of the C and just need to learn to buzz a C instead of a Bb, to which your ear has become attuned.
All the best.
Roger
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:01 pm
by Subtone
Wow - thanks for all the great replies!
I'm still a bit mystified, even after trying a bunch of your various suggestions. But first:
I came from a Bb euphonium/trombone embouchure and have had to learn how to do things much differently on tuba. That said, I have perfect relative pitch and it seems unlikely that I am tricking myself into relying on the tuba to produce the right frequency, or playing it out of tune (the tuner agrees with this assessment).
Doug Elliott wrote:You are most likely switching airstream directions right at that point in your range. Maybe you're playing upstream below that, with the bottom lip directing the air up, and above that you're downstream, with the top lip directing the air down. It's best to keep the same airstream direction throughout your range so that doesn't happen.
This does seem to be the case. I am using more lower lip to open up the low range and I seem to switch right around the 2nd space C (getting back into "comfort territory)... until I warm up (a lot). Then I either don't seem to switch or it becomes much more gradual and too smooth for me to notice.
While the double buzz is happening, I can't seem to get it to go away by firming up the less-active lip. It disappears if I move the mouthpiece slightly higher on my face but this seems like a terrible solution.
Now comes the weird part: this just started happening a week or two ago. I started on the tuba 6 months ago and spent the first few weeks with pretty much just long tones to try to get some good tone happening in the low range. As I got more comfortable on the horn, I was also feeling more-or-less secure throughout the range with no noticeable hang-ups. Where did this come from?
The only thing I have noticed is that there seems to be less of my lips "in" the mouthpiece - this was a purposeful shift to get more overtones in my ear in the low range.
It may be time to get some more lessons.
Re: Hole in my buzz?
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:28 pm
by Doug Elliott
Actually, moving the mouthpiece slightly higher may be a very good solution. You are used to a smaller mouthpiece - because of your nose, the larger mouthpiece of a tuba can push your placement down to a completely different proportion than what may be ideal for you, and sometimes that problem appears as a result. That's one good reason for a narrow rim shape - it allows you to place higher if you need that.
Your lower lip does need to relax and become more active as you down in range, but try to keep it from collapsing and going beyond the upper, which is why the airstream changes direction.
You said it doesn't happen when you warm up a lot. It takes a while for the top lip texture to soften up enough to let it protrude enough in the low range so you have control. As you warm up, gradually add just one note at a time going down to avoid getting to, or going past, that point where it switches.