finger-button felts

[MikeW]

I'm looking into upgrading my B&H Imperial EEb tuba to be nearly a Sovereign.

I don't have access to any Sovereigns to check details, but I've seen pictures on the web that look as if there is a synthetic liner/bump-stop in the groove on the top cap, which doesn't exist on my Imperial. Does anyone know if this is in addition to a felt under the finger button, or does it replace the felt?

Are there any detailed drawings or exploded parts-diagrams out there ? (Google says no, but maybe someone knows better)

[ztuba]

Talk to Bloke

[Ken Herrick]

[quote="MikeW"]I'm looking into upgrading my B&H EEb tuba to be nearly a Sovereign.

I'm afraid it will take more than some valve felts to achieve what you say you want to do. The sovereigns have a different bell, different leadpipe and other changes which have much more effect on the way the instrument plays than would merely copying the valve felts.

That is NOT to say that getting the valves correctly aligned might not make a real improvement. As Ztuba says, contact Bloke for some of his Blokewashers to align the valves to their optimum.
Get a good Anderson's valve re-fit, install an American Shank receiver, have the first and second valve slides precision alighned, install triggers and, assuming you have a 4V will have a very nice instrument that will play very well in tune over its full range and be a very "fun" horn to play.

[MikeW]

Many thanks for the advice. My bad - I should have mentioned that this is one of the very last 4-valve compensating Imperials, with the nineteen inch bell and fully conical bows and branches. To bring it up to the same spec as the first run of Sovs, the remaining differences are:

• stainless-steel valve pistons (I can live without these)
• wider-bore mouthpipe (preferably the rapid-expansion pipe from a BE981)
• standard-shank receiver (and standard-shank mouthpiece)
• Delrin valve-guides (I intend to use after-market Delrin tacquets, not the Sov disc type)
• spring dampers

In addition to these differences, I noticed from pictures on the web that later Sovs have what looks like Neoprene washers in the grooves of the top valve caps. I assume these prevent the rims of the finger buttons from clanking against the valve caps, but I don't know whether the old felts inside the finger-buttons are still there or not. I can of course continue using the Imp-style felts, but I'm about to have new felts/Neoprene washers installed and aligned because my existing felts are badly compressed, and if there is an upgrade available, now is the time to make sure it happens.

I know that later Sovs had a different bottom bow and bell-throat, which helped fix their tuning problems, but deadened the sound a bit. My Imp has already been cut, and plays pretty much in tune, so I don't need the bottom bow mod; In fact, if I fix the remaining differences my Imp should play like the famous "Fletcher" model (leaving me absolutely nowhere to hide...)

Triggers on the Sovereign tubas are an after-market refinement. I'm not planning on going there, yet.

[bbocaner]

Many thanks for the advice. My bad - I should have mentioned that this is one of the very last 4-valve compensating Imperials, with the nineteen inch bell and fully conical bows and branches. To bring it up to the same spec as the first run of Sovs, the remaining differences are:

• stainless-steel valve pistons (I can live without these)
• wider-bore mouthpipe (preferably the rapid-expansion pipe from a BE981)
• standard-shank receiver (and standard-shank mouthpiece)
• Delrin valve-guides (I intend to use after-market Delrin tacquets, not the Sov disc type)
• spring dampers

In addition to these differences, I noticed from pictures on the web that later Sovs have what looks like Neoprene washers in the grooves of the top valve caps. I assume these prevent the rims of the finger buttons from clanking against the valve caps, but I don't know whether the old felts inside the finger-buttons are still there or not. I can of course continue using the Imp-style felts, but I'm about to have new felts/Neoprene washers installed and aligned because my existing felts are badly compressed, and if there is an upgrade available, now is the time to make sure it happens.

I know that later Sovs had a different bottom bow and bell-throat, which helped fix their tuning problems, but deadened the sound a bit. My Imp has already been cut, and plays pretty much in tune, so I don't need the bottom bow mod; In fact, if I fix the remaining differences my Imp should play like the famous "Fletcher" model (leaving me absolutely nowhere to hide...)

Triggers on the Sovereign tubas are an after-market refinement. I'm not planning on going there, yet.

There are a wide variety of different felt setups used on sovereigns of different eras, but the new tubas that they are selling now have cosmetic felts in the groove in top of the valve cap that aren't thick enough to actually engage the finger button in addition to the standard felts under the finger button which actually do the work. Buffet crampon does have some beautiful exploded parts diagrams, I have the euphonium and baritone ones but not the tuba ones -- and I'm not sure it's OK to share them.

[MikeW]

Talk to Bloke

I would, but as of his posting of April 2nd he doesn't supply synthetic felts for B&H tubas, because their valve stems are too variable to allow reliable alignment.

[MikeW]

There are a wide variety of different felt setups used on sovereigns of different eras, but the new tubas that they are selling now have cosmetic felts in the groove in top of the valve cap that aren't thick enough to actually engage the finger button in addition to the standard felts under the finger button which actually do the work...

Perfect! many thanks, that's exactly the information I was looking for.