"cimbasso"/"Verdi hated the tuba"/etc.

[eupher61]

I remember a history prof saying, and I actually agree, it's too bad that Mahler died so early and Strauss so late. Music would have been quite a bit different.

[quesonegro]

A propos the subject, I just stumbled over this listing of a cimbasso in BBb from Italy on Deutsche eBay. Would be nice to play the fourth trombone part in a valve trombone section with that instrument, if it is a good one...

Unfortunately, that's a BIG if!

[Lingon]

A propos the subject, I just stumbled over this listing of a cimbasso in BBb from Italy on Deutsche eBay. Would be nice to play the fourth trombone part in a valve trombone section with that instrument, if it is a good one...

Unfortunately, that's a BIG if!

That is of course so. However a summer trip to Sicily, where the instrument seems to be located, to check it out maybe?!

Otherwise there might be one Orsi instrument in the UK.

[bisontuba]

bloke wrote: (quote from Tubenet Sponser forum re. 'Bubbie/Travel/Micro F/Eb tubas))

...."It seems to me, though, that you Chinese vendors, Meinl-Weston, et al, should refer to these as CIMBASSO's (and, no, I'm not kidding). How many (original/real) 19th century cimbasso's (in all likelihood) were built like the (weird-shaped) modern-day ones? More likely, they were EXTREMELY SIMILAR to what you're selling there....."

A big ++++1....and 'prove' it to be wrong....(I know, I know, you get a doubling and/or get to play--or should I say play the part [or should I really say 'get paid'] by using a 'L' shaped horn----but as far as 'the sound' goes, use a shallow mouthpiece in either the M/W, Chinese, Bob Tucci sold/cloned Tornister horn, whatever, etc.--- and tell me it 'sounds different' than the 'L' shaped horn...)

I can see the flames "a comin''......but just being truthful--I agree 100% with bloke

Regards-
mark

[UDELBR]

A big ++++1....and 'prove' it to be wrong....(I know, I know, you get a doubling and/or get to play--or should I say play the part [or should I really say 'get paid'] by using a 'L' shaped horn----but as far as 'the sound' goes, use a shallow mouthpiece in either the M/W, Chinese, Bob Tucci sold/cloned Tornister horn, whatever, etc.--- and tell me it 'sounds different' than the 'L' shaped horn...)

While I'll admit the "Bubbie" looks at first glance to be largely cylindrical, you assert this is somehow equivalent to any kind of cimbasso. There were upward-facing cimbassi, but given the directional nature of cylindrical brass instrument sound (i.e.: far more directional than conical brass), surely they wouldn't have met with Verdi's approval. His most ardent wish was simply that the lowest voice "blend" with the others. How could a Bubbie (or primitive equivalent) have blended at all, projecting mere inches into the pit roof, while the 3 upper parts were projecting forward?

[Wyvern]

I can see the logic of using a Bubbie, or travel tuba as a cimbasso and do cite that as a possible use on my website. These small tubas do start to sound trombone like when blown hard, particularly with shallow cup mouthpiece. However, I really think it depends on the situation. The problem I see using so is projection of the upward bell of the travel tuba against the forward bells of the trombones.

I personally backed out of using a Bubbie as cimbasso when playing Verdi Force of Destiny earlier this year with symphony orchestra purely on grounds of balance.

Maybe I should ask the factory to make detachable forward facing bell for Bubbie? Drop me PM if that appeals - if there is sufficient interest I will pursue!

[UDELBR]

Maybe I should ask the factory to make detachable forward facing bell for Bubbie? Drop me PM if that appeals - if there is sufficient interest I will pursue!

(sorry: off topic): Noooooo. I keep telling you: the big money from the Chinese market will be any type of York copy. Really.

[UDELBR]

They sound about the same to me in-person as well...and yes, both the upright bell and L-shaped vary in quality of tone production, as do any other families of instruments.

Wasn't speaking of differences in "quality of tone production", but rather the differences in resultant timbre & projection between forward-firing instruments and instruments relegated to bouncing their sounds off a low ceiling. Clearly there would be a difference, not related in any way to how their tone is produced.

[bisontuba]

Maybe I should ask the factory to make detachable forward facing bell for Bubbie? Drop me PM if that appeals - if there is sufficient interest I will pursue!

(sorry: off topic): Noooooo. I keep telling you: the big money from the Chinese market will be any type of York copy. Really.

Hi-
In about 12 months, your 6/4 piston wish comes true in both BBb and CC....
Mark

[Wyvern]

In about 12 months, your 6/4 piston wish comes true in both BBb and CC....

Mark, If that is the Wisemann you are talking about, then I fear the price will still be too much for many people...

[Lingon]

...
Maybe I should ask the factory to make detachable forward facing bell for Bubbie?...

Bubbie one step further

[imperialbari]

...
Maybe I should ask the factory to make detachable forward facing bell for Bubbie?...

Bubbie one step further

Just a matter of the right shape of mattress and/or strapping of the Bubbienist. May take some inventiveness regarding the music stand for a horizontal player.

[bisontuba]

In about 12 months, your 6/4 piston wish comes true in both BBb and CC....

Mark, If that is the Wisemann you are talking about, then I fear the price will still be too much for many people...

Jonathan-
Nope, I consider a CC PT-6P clone-Wisemann, model #DTU-C900 ( I was quoted $5,940 in lacquer, or $6,630 in silver/gold trim Plus shipping charges from China direct to me with it taking 60 days, and full payment upfront and none are available to try here in the U.S.--from DF Music Enterprises) to be a 5/4 ( and it is available now to order from Wisemann/DF Music--apparently Micky Wrobleski likes it and is using the silver/gold version in his orchestra) ------what is coming in a year is something else.....
Mark

[J.c. Sherman]

Bloke, I think you're basically right... but my introduction to playing cimp was because a conductor asked for it. And that's happened every time (except the Requiem, where I made the ophicleide request... no doubling; I was already hired).

So perhaps some players put it in front of conductors, but I think seeing the scores eventually - especially in the 80s and 90s where performance practice for all music was being reexamined - led conductors to ask the question first. We were already in the pit and getting the parts anyway.

NB about the Bubbie, my and Pelitti's Verdi-inspired cimbassi: (valve) trombones in that period didn't all face forward; there were a goodly number manufactured in upright form. But understanding that direction does make a difference, mine can be put on your shoulder like a micro-marching tuba to point forward like the bones. Neptune, perhaps a removable bell forward would make your cross-purpose idea as a cimbasso even more palatable.

[J.c. Sherman]

These are awesome!!! I've had 2 G basses, and for some situations, it's a great asset in the section; sized-down Mozart, for example

My next project for myself will be to make another for myself; I have access to one for now through a fellow bass boner.

J.c.S.

[imperialbari]

I have one of the last B&H Imperial bass trombones in G&D made in 1978. But I don’t have that D=>C extension for the valve also seen on the above photo. And, yes I am interested, id somebody has one for sale.

Klaus

[J.c. Sherman]

I had a conn g bass for many years with a modern bass trombone bore. An amazing instrument that also made a decent Verdi bottom.

[Lingon]

...Just a matter of the right shape of mattress and/or strapping of the Bubbienist. May take some inventiveness regarding the music stand for a horizontal player...

The music stand matter might be easier to solve than the instrument, probably with mirrors like a periscope, that must be constructed to see the conductor.

[Lingon]

Any idea from which year this one could be?

[pjv]

http://www.brassark.com/sale/" target="_blank

A Conn 1905 contrabass trombone in G.

Cheers, Pat