Yamaha YCB 621

[Lingon]

Maybe all this is already answered, but it would be nice to have all the answers in the same place.

A couple of questions for those that knows about and have played that model instrument.
As it only has 4 valves I wonder if, especially, the tuning slides for 1st and 3rd valves are reachable and may be easily adjusted on the fly?
Are the low E, Eb and D approximately in tune with some pulling, using 124, 134 and 1234, or some other combinations?
Is there a usable Db/C# as a fake tone, or what it is called in tuba language.
Is the overall tuning good, really good?
As I mainly have played rotaries, that is almost self emptying, I also wonder about draining of the Ymaha as it has piston valves?!

[The Jackson]

As it only has 4 valves I wonder if, especially, the tuning slides for 1st and 3rd valves are reachable and may be easily adjusted on the fly?

Yeah! It's not super comfortable, but you could even slick up #1 and keep your hand on it constantly if you're a particularly tall fellow.

Are the low E, Eb and D approximately in tune with some pulling, using 124, 134 and 1234, or some other combinations?

E and Eb can be wrangled relatively easily with valves + slides, but the D has always given me a hard time.

Is there a usable Db/C# as a fake tone, or what it is called in tuba language.

No; not on mine anyway. To be clear, I've never made false tones as part of my tool box.

Is the overall tuning good, really good?

I'd say it's pretty all right. It's got some squirrely partials on the open bugle that would require lipping or something alternate fingerings, but I don't find it too much to manage.

As I mainly have played rotaries, that is almost self emptying, I also wonder about draining of the Ymaha as it has piston valves?!

Perhaps it depends on how you would hold the horn. I cant it to my left and #2 needs to be emptied frequently as well as the main slide, which requires a spin to catch it all. Over time, I've gotten quick with it, but the frequency might prove an annoyance to you. I don't mind it now because I have a better idea of when is a good time to drain.


It's a very fun, little tuba and has served me well for a few years now! Let me know if you have any more questions.

[Bob Kolada]

You seem to be listing comp fingerings. On a 5 valve non-comp tuba (pick what works for you) I play-
E- 234
Eb- 134 pull/5
D- 5234 pull/5134 push/52
Db- all 5/51

[Kevin Hendrick]

You seem to be listing comp fingerings. On a 5 valve non-comp tuba (pick what works for you) I play-
E- 234
Eb- 134 pull/5
D- 5234 pull/5134 push/52
Db- all 5/51

The fingerings you list are close to the same ones I use on my non-comp 4-valve CC:

• E - 234
  Eb - 134 w/moderate 1st pull
  D - 1234 w/1st slide almost out of the horn
  Db - false tone - 3

The YCB *is* a 4-valve, so 5-valve fingerings don't apply. I played one of these a few years ago for about a month (borrowed from a friend) -- nice horn, played well, sounded good, but no false tones at all. A 5th rotor would be a good (and probably pricey) addition to this instrument.

[Bob Kolada]

Hence, pick what works for you.

[Lingon]

Thanks all for your comments. Some food for thought. Part of the comments, especially about the over all tuning, seems not to be what I really expected. That was more like the usual comments for a Chinese made instrument. But it seems to be a neat horn so maybe with a bit of work even the tuning peculiarities would be manageable. As I understand there is a fake C# so then it would be possible to play chromatic the whole way even with only 4 valves?!
What alternatives in the same size and tuning are there from other makers?

[TheHatTuba]

What alternatives in the same size and tuning are there from other makers?

The Weril copy is almost identical (and cheaper).

[Kevin Hendrick]

As I understand there is a fake C# so then it would be possible to play chromatic the whole way even with only 4 valves?!

There wasn't on the one I played -- that was the only real problem that I had with it.

[Tom Coffey]

+1 on the Weril. Little known and very underrated horns.

[Lingon]

As I understand there is a fake C# so then it would be possible to play chromatic the whole way even with only 4 valves?!

There wasn't on the one I played -- that was the only real problem that I had with it.

Thanks for correcting me, I did misinterpret it the 1st time I read through.

+1 on the Weril. Little known and very underrated horns.

What about fake tones, or at least the low C#? And also what about the overall tuning from the same perspectives that I wondered about the Ymaha?

[Timswisstuba]

If you have your mind set on a small Yamaha CC 621, I remember seeing a used one with an added 5th valve In Berlin last Décembre. Not many people In Berlin are looking for a small piston CC so it might still BE there.
Send me a p.m. if you'd like more détails.
-Tim

[TheHatTuba]

+1 on the Weril. Little known and very underrated horns.

What about fake tones, or at least the low C#? And also what about the overall tuning from the same perspectives that I wondered about the Ymaha?

The low C# should be "fakeable". Some horns do it better than others (ex: monster Eb's v. German BBb)
the tuning is no better or worse than the Yamaha
What is significant is the price point. Weril ~$1500-$2000 whereas the Yamaha ~$3500-$4000

[circusboy]

I do think that this is a "you get what you pay for" situation, though. The fit, finish, structural integrity, and overall solidity of the Yamaha is far superior to the Weril.

[glangfur]

Caveat: I am a bass trombone player and only a very occasional tuba doubler. I play on a smallish tuba mouthpiece, around the size of a Conn Helleberg 7B. I can't remember exactly which mouthpiece I was playing for the test below.

Soon after I bought my Conn 3J at the recommendation of Dave Fedderly - a 4-valve CC of comparable size to the 621 - I got together with a good friend with a 621 and compared them. He had played a 3J through college and was (and still does as far as I know) using a 621 as his primary tuba, as he does a lot, if not most, of his playing in brass quintets.

For me, the 621 had easier response and smoother legato connections in the middle register, but I had a much easier time making a good sound down low on the 3J. Strangely, the 621 plays a bit more like a bass trombone below the staff, in that I have to keep the airstream pretty fast or the sound gets sort of flabby and thin. The 3J feels more like it reinforces the low notes, so that I can get them started and they require less energy to keep the full sound going.

I don't remember trying the false tones on the 621, but I can tell you they're fantastic on my 3J. The 1st valve slide is an easy pull for a pretty good low F (124 without pull is flat but not impossible), E is right on with 234, Eb and D can be done by pulling the 1st slide or false tones (fingering a fifth above), and Db/C# centers very well as a false tone with 23. I even use a false tone on the 4th valve for pedal C at soft dynamics. The 3rd slide is reachable, but I never use it.

As a doubler, the really nice thing for me is that this 3J plays very well in tune with the right mouthpiece. I have two that work and make everything line up really well: a Floyd Cooley Helleberg and a Warburton TG3. The Cooley sounds bigger, particularly in the low register, but the Warburton seems to be a better pit mouthpiece - a little darker and rounder without so many high overtones flying around. The Helleberg 7B isn't quite as well in tune, and a Schilke 66 sounds nice but the pitch is much too squirrelly for me. For a while I also had a JK 7B (I think), which was easy to play and pretty well in tune, but a little bit limiting in the low register.

When I first got the 3J I thought about adding a fifth valve to it, but then I discovered how good the false tones were. If I played tuba a lot more I would probably want a slightly larger horn with 5 valves, but for what I do this works great. I think it would be relatively easy to install a thumb-operated kicker for the 1st valve slide, which might make it even better.

I don't know if the older 2J model has the same nice false tones. Both models seem to sell for at least $1000 less than used 621's.

[Lingon]

Thank you for all excellent information and many more things to consider. Now I have a lot of stuff to think of.