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It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:08 pm
by BassBass
Hi guys,
I'm intending to buy an old York add a 4th valve and a rotor.
Someone could tell me if it's worth? Was anyone successful with this change?
It would be a good candidate for an Eb tuba does everything?
Suggestions
Thanks
Call
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:35 pm
by Alex C
No. Not in my opinion. The bugle is off, as Bloke eloquently stated, and it throws off the related valve combinations. The low range on those horns is not especially good anyway.
I converted one from Eb to F and it went from being a marginal Eb tuba to being a marginal F tuba, the low range being the main complaint. They do sound very nice in the staff though.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:18 am
by J.c. Sherman
You should send it to me for proper disposal
Actually... I'll disagree a bit... these have a remarkable sound and a 4th may be worth it if you already love the horn's sound and playability. Otherwise, you're trying to make raw eel taste like apple pie by adding whipped cream.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:08 pm
by J.c. Sherman
Hmm... the York Monster I used to futz with had a .689 bore like the King (as does my little York 3/4 Sousy)... are there different versions floating around out there? That thing had a sound that even people who "hate the tuba" loved.
YMMV... I like the idea of putting a 183 valve section on a monster (cheaper than a 184)... It's been nagging me. But I think I'll wait for a compensating section for my next Monster Eb.
J.c.S.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:13 pm
by circusboy
I had one of these once and just loved the sound/tone and feel of it--probably the prettiest of any horn I've owned, at least in the middle and upper registers. The intonation issues proved to be too much for me to deal with, though.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:33 pm
by Bob Kolada
Even with a slide rod that low D is just so flat you'll probably end up playing it 234 to avoid long, awkward pulls.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:39 pm
by Sam Gnagey
The bell and bottom bow will make a great CC tuba when mated with a King 2341 and an added 5th rotor.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:49 pm
by J.c. Sherman
Sam, that's a work of art, but I'd prefer it in Eb
I'm the only one, though.. I think
(PPEbT - People for the Preservation of Eb tubas)
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:56 pm
by EdFirth
The Kanstul Eb's are copies of York monster Eb's. If you're anywhere near a dealer you could play a few and have a little more first hand information to work with. I believe the bore is .656. Lee Stofer has them as well as Dave Fedderly (Baltimore Brass) and Steve Ferguson @ Horn Guys. I had an original York, four valve, top action and it was great but sorely needed a valve job and I hit a spot in my life where I didn't want to wait around for six monthes to get it back. Hell, I could be dead by then. Good luck. Ed
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:10 pm
by hbcrandy
I had MUCH success with York EEb tuba modification. I used the big plumbing of the York Monster EEb tuba and added a .687" bore, 4 piston set of King valves and a .689" Meinl Weston rotor after piston #4. I used a large, Allied universal lead. The sound is superb and intonation poses no problem to me. I have used this tuba on The Rite of Spring, Symphony Fantastique, Franck, Symphony in D Minor as well as on solo recital appearances. This turned out to be a GREAT EEb tuba.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:59 pm
by opus37
(PPEbT - People for the Preservation of Eb tubas)
Can I join? I use a Kanstul Eb for everything and find it perfect for me.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:04 pm
by BassBass
bloke wrote:J.c. Sherman wrote:You should send it to me for proper disposal
Actually... I'll disagree a bit... these have a remarkable sound and a 4th may be worth it if you already love the horn's sound and playability. Otherwise, you're trying to make raw eel taste like apple pie by adding whipped cream.
If you're going to do this, some of those old small-bore (Michigan-made) York-made BBb sousaphones (relatively worthless "parts horns", imo) sport pistons, casings, braces, and tubing that match these Eb tubas.
"Remarkable sound" - yes, I would agree ("
wonderful" sound), but (with the 16.5mm bore) also "limited decibels" (in a large ensemble, one of those "felt and not heard" sorts of tubas).
As far as a 5th rotor, (if mounting it on the large side of the main slide) you might look for something in the 18mm bore size range (ref: Miraphone 184 BBb/CC, etc.)
Another choice would be to scrap the factory valveset (is it "top-action" anyway...?? ...likely to have been scrapped...??), find a REALLY beat-up old King 2341 (or older version), harvest the 11/16"/17.5mm bore valveset (larger than the original York valveset), shorten it to Eb, and use that on the York...and another option (less work, as the slide lengths would already be correct) would be to harvest a 4-valve 11/16" bore valveset off an old King Eb sousaphone.
Any of these scenarios (if done well, and with a cosmetic overhaul as well) is likely just as expensive (or doing this yourself...??) as buying a nice tried-and-true/ready-to-go 4+1 Eb tuba.
I have a valveset of a 36K 0,735" I can use it to a 4th valve. The 1-2-3 I think in use a King valveset.
Is more large that the original bore. But it will work?
What you think Bloke?
Call
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:13 pm
by Mark E. Chachich
I have listened to Randy Harrison play his E flat York that he modified to a five valves. I have also played that tuba. It is what he said it is and I think that it is an excellent tuba. My E flat York is more limited (it is all original).
Mark
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:25 pm
by BassBass
Hi Randy Harrison,
Could you show for us your York 5V?
We are very curious.
Cheers
Call
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:42 pm
by hbcrandy
I will try to photograph it this week and then try to figure out how to get the photo onto tubenet. Bear with me. I am technologically challenged and I tend to play tubas, not photograph them.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:20 pm
by Wyvern
J.c. Sherman wrote:Sam, that's a work of art, but I'd prefer it in Eb
I'm the only one, though.. I think
(PPEbT - People for the Preservation of Eb tubas)
You should live in the UK - home of the Eb tuba!
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:51 pm
by J.c. Sherman
That has occured to me
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:30 pm
by BassBass
Bump
Waiting for the York pics of Sir. Randy Harrison.
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:27 am
by joh_tuba
I'm sure conventional wisdom hasn't changed on this topic BUT so many of these horns float around and they are such prime candidates for being mucked with I feel like *surely* someone has discovered some means of improving them while staying in the key of Eb. OR can provide actual real world examples of perceived changes after a given modification. There's very little of that in the million tubenet posts on these horns.
Reading through all the old threads there are lots of dire warnings about not putting too large a bore on them but no cited examples of such a horn existing. Has it actually been done or is this just conventional wisdom? Also don't see any references to using a rotary valve section on one. Nearly all rotary versions of a piston model have better intonation, right?
I wonder if swapping out an inner bow for a more sensible taper or trimming a bit of the pancake off the bell would help bring the octaves back into agreement. I also wonder how many of the tuning issues associated with these horns are related to the painfully leaky valves and general disrepair they are always in.
New thoughts or data points?
Thanks!
Re: It is worth reforming a York Monster EEb
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:52 am
by phaymore
I have an old Conn Eb Monster and I have the same trouble as everyone else. What would be a proper period mouthpiece for this horn? Shallow? Deep? Large diameter? Small diameter?