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Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:26 am
by PaulTkachenko
Hi folks,
I just ordered one of these.
Spec is the same as the 3 valve Thomann sousa, which seems to be essentially a King rip-off, which is what I'm after. But with 4 valves ... The false low Eb on my fibreglass horn just wasn't cutting it for me ...
Price includes a decent (looking) flight case with wheels.
I have high hopes - and will report back.
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:21 pm
by PaulTkachenko
Paul at Rosehill had a Thomann sousa in with a case and the thought it was alright ... anyway, it's got a 30 day money back guarantee on it, so I don't have to keep it if it sucks.
Detailed picks of the fibreglass can be seen here:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomannsousaph ... erglas.htm" target="_blank
Case looks pretty decent - certainly can't argue with the price.
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:50 pm
by PaulTkachenko
Well, it arrived today and I only had a chance for a quick blow ...
Not great for the money, I'd say ...
In common with all Jin Bao sousa (so it seems) the lead pipe is far too long to be comfortable.
The main manufacturing 'gaff' was that the bell is a poor fit in the receiver.
Also the mouthpiece didn't go in far enough as the receiver wasn't deep enough.
It blew a little sharp at the octave, but nothing that can't be lipped and tamed.
The case however, is excellent and has a few things that are better than the older SKB I currently have - good padding, and lots of fastenings.
The bell is 26, but it's considerably bigger at that point than my King.
This begs the question - why didn't they copy a good design?
I'm going to take advantage of Thomann's 30 day money back guarantee.
I'll try and take some pictures and post them ...
Anyone want to sell me a nice sousa?
I'm in the UK though ...
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:30 pm
by Wyvern
Paul, The sousaphone we stock at Wessex Tubas based on the 20K with short action valves is much better. You are welcome to come down to Andover to try - we currently have two in stock.
http://www.wessex-tubas.co.uk/products/sousaphone
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:34 pm
by Wyvern
PaulTkachenko wrote:This begs the question - why didn't they copy a good design?
Chinese factories produce what design dealers pay them to make. I understand a South American dealer initiated that 4-valve sousaphone
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:56 pm
by PaulTkachenko
I know ... I sent Robin to you to buy it
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:45 pm
by PaulTkachenko
Who's got a King 26" bell for me then - any pointers?
I could have it relaquered over here, so long as it isn't too creased.
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:21 am
by toobagrowl
The only new 4-valve sousaphones (besides the Thomann) are the Jupiter 590 "University Quad", and the Dynasty M890
Anyone notice that the Jupiter sousaphones are almost as expensive as the King sousaphones and that the Dynasty, Weril, and Yamaha brass sousaphones are every bit as expensive - if not more - than a new Conn 20k?
http://www.music123.com/sousaphones
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sou ... cat=159944
There is the RARE old Conn or King 4v BBb souzy that pops up on eBay ever once in a great while. I believe there was an old Buescher 4v BBb souzy on there not long ago, and there was a slew of old 3v Conn, King and Signet fiberglass and brass sousaphones that all sold over the past few days. There are a couple 4v Eb souzys up now.
People are willing to buy these old souzys, fix them up, and buy parts for them because they play & sound good and are well made
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:43 pm
by PaulTkachenko
So, if anyone spots a King brass bell in half decent condition ... Let me know.
Cheers,
Paul
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:19 pm
by PaulTkachenko
I got a chance to have an extended blow on this sousa today. It's not a bad instrument, although it is obviously heavy (to be expected).
The bell 'rings', which is kind of annoying.
I think with a small amount of money thrown at it, it could be a half decent instrument.
I'm still sending it back - the body/bell connection is very poorly constructed. The rest of the instrument is decent. Tuning is good and it sounds great. It's pretty nimble too for such a bit sousa.
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:38 pm
by David Richoux
What is the 4th valve pipe route? The photos on the website are a bit confusing, even when enlarged. It looks like it goes almost all the way around the main loop of the horn, with a small tuning slide, but that seems unusual.
This view and this shows it, I think. An interesting way of reducing contact with the abdominals!
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:08 pm
by iiipopes
bloke wrote:bloke's opinions (no one else's)
- The highest quality sousaphones (found in any sort of quantity/selection) are vintage Conn, King, and Olds/Reynolds American-made sousaphones (individual selection according to individual tastes).
- Next below these are currently-made American sousaphones (King/Conn - thin metal).
- Next are vintage Selmer USA (knock-off of Conn 32K/14K/36K) and Holton.
- Next are Yamaha (very expensive, large size, not a very nice quality of sound or projection, imo)
- Behind these are probably Weril (Dynasty) - Brazil.
- Next are the Chinese short-action sousaphones (now getting into "value vs. quality").
- After these are Jupiter (again, "value vs. quality").
- Next are the other Chinese sousaphones (small bore, odd designs).
- Finally are the India things.
I may have forgotten some. "Real" 1920's (etc.) Buescher (not Selmer U.S.A.) sousaphones are fairly rare. I would consider them micro-production" - leaving them off the list. I left rarely-seen (including Besson/London, J.W. York & Sons, B&M Symphonic York, Italian makes, very early U.S. companies such as J.W. Pepper- etc., and other) makes off the list.
Bloke and I completely agree on this. We may disagree on a variety of other subjects, but when it comes to souzys, this is the word. Period.
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:17 am
by PaulTkachenko
Hi everyone,
I slapped a few pictures on a webpage. Apologies for the camera phone shots in a fairly dark room:
http://www.tkachenko.co.uk/sousa.html" target="_blank
Regards,
Paul
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:20 am
by PaulTkachenko
I'm guessing this would serve me well:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Conn-20K-Brig ... 27c850a59c" target="_blank
Regards,
Paul
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:53 am
by David Richoux
PaulTkachenko wrote:Hi everyone,
I slapped a few pictures on a webpage. Apologies for the camera phone shots in a fairly dark room:
http://www.tkachenko.co.uk/sousa.html" target="_blank" target="_blank
Regards,
Paul
What do you think the finger ring on the outside of the bell is supposed to do?
I have not seen that before!
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:07 am
by PaulTkachenko
It did come in handy when man-handling the bell out of of the case.
I'd also use it to wrap a cloth around the dampen the bell, which rings in sympathy with the notes - kind of annoying. At first I thought it was the cymbals on the drum kit in my rehearsal room!
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:28 am
by Wyvern
That is interesting, that case is not JinBao. So I rather wonder if this is not the JinBao 4-valve sousaphone - maybe made by another factory? Did it say JinBao on the packing box Paul?
As I have said before, what looks like the same instrument can be made by multiple factories to differing standards
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:37 am
by PaulTkachenko
The code on the box, as well as the design, suggest Jin Bao to me. It was JB something ...
The case is well worth having. OK, it's not as good quality as SKB/MTS but I'd be very happy throwing a sousa on a plane in this case.
The wheel would most certainly come right off, but it would be easy enough to put some better ones on.
Overall, I think the build is good on this instrument (mouthpiece does fit, I just had the 2 bits the wrong way round!)
I could certainly get the bell/body join sorted out for small money. The valves are OK, but I would spend a bit of money getting them hand lapped etc.
The bell 'ringing' is a design issue, not a build quality issue (I think). A few deadening strips on the bell would probably sort that out.
For the price, the whole instrument was packaged very well - so, hats off to Thomann. I'm pretty sure they are going to have someone come round and collect it and take it back - so that's very convenient.
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:13 am
by sousaphone68
Hello thank you for posting the pictures and your experience and impression of the sousaphone and the supplier.
I think from the photos there are only 2 thumbscrews for the bell.
This is the same as my Conn 26k and it has the same uneven look when attached.
Your fibreglass sousaphone has 3 screws which centres and secures the bell much better.
My only exposure to sousaphones is the brass one I own and two fibreglass horns that belong to a band I am in. The lighter fibreglass horns all have 3 screws and my heavier brass one only has 2,it has never fallen off but I do not like the uneven gap.
Is the addition of 2 more screws the improvement you mention or are there other problems?
Thanks Noel Carrick
Re: Thomann 4 valve Bb sousa
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:30 am
by PaulTkachenko
Hi,
There are 3 screws on this sousa, which would/do secure the bell adequately. The problem is that the opening is a bit too oval and the bell bit is round, so they don't quite fit.
I could probably get it straightened up if I really dug the horn.