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Instrument for Respighi pines and fountains
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:02 pm
by MartyNeilan
I think a reasonable case has been made for a cimbasso / valved contrabass trombone type of instrument for Verdi and Puccini. (Whether or not we will all run out and buy or build one is another story. That is way way down on my list.)
Now, what about Respighi pines and fountains?
Re: Instrument for Respighi pines and fountains
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:00 am
by Todd S. Malicoate
Pffft. Respighi wrote Pines for three tenor trombones and one bass trombone so anyone who pulls out a (*gasp*) TUBA on that piece is clearly doing it wrong.
The part for Fountains clearly says "Bass Tuba" which clearly indicates his intention as well. F or Eb is, naturally, the "correct" choice.
Todd "hoping to see a picture of that cimbasso that can play the low E's" S. Malicoate
Re: Instrument for Respighi pines and fountains
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:45 am
by UDELBR
Todd S. Malicoate wrote:hoping to see a picture of that cimbasso that can play the low E's
It's hard to imagine one that
couldn't.
(except maybe 4v Eb ...)
Re: Instrument for Respighi pines and fountains
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:52 am
by PMeuph
I have no personal experience in playing Fountains but every single time I have heard the famous excerpt it was always on a very large CC tuba. All the recordings readily available on Youtube seem to use CC tuba. (At least the recordings of the excerpt alone). So, does anyone have a good recommendation for a recording that uses F tuba?
Re: Instrument for Respighi pines and fountains
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:28 am
by J.c. Sherman
While the Pines of Rome PART says tuba, the SCORE reads contrabass trombone (translated). The part is in error; the cylindrical brass would be on stage, the conicals (flicorni) are off stage, mimicking Roman Tubae
The contrabass trombone at that time was the "trombono contrabasso Verdi" that's been mentioned in the gigantic thread on Verdi hating Cimbassi. The guy was a bit influential, the instrument was available, the part simplistic. Respighi certainly didn't mind the tuba; there's no doubt about Fountains. But there's also no longer doubt about the Pines.
Just heard it recently with "tuba Verdi"... it's incredibly effective!!! Especially in the descending triplets of the last movement!
J.c.S.
Re: Instrument for Respighi pines and fountains
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:09 am
by UDELBR
russiantuba wrote: I saw a Facebook post about someone playing a major Contrabass, low range part on f tuba.
Toby Hanks used to have students work up "the Ride" on F. Just as an exercise, mind you.
russiantuba wrote: Has anyone ever tried fountains on f tuba?
I've played Pines on cimbasso. Works
great.
Re: Instrument for Respighi pines and fountains
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:12 am
by Bob Kolada
Fountains might be fun on a good F tuba, but I think it would sound more consistent on an Eb or lower (instead of- B E, B BRAK, B E, B BRAK).
I did run through it once on bass trombone (tuba part) with one tenor trombone. Fun, but a hell of a workout.
On my first little beater Eb, I used to work up the Ride, Prok 5, and Fountains. Good times, but probably not a large ensemble friendly answer...
Re: Instrument for Respighi pines and fountains
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:24 am
by J.c. Sherman
russiantuba wrote:When I played pines, it said tuba on the part. Someone told me some editions had it as Tuba to be played with the other parts of the roman trilogy. I would never play fountains or church windows on cimbasso.
I will make this point. I played Falstaff this year. There was an exposed low E and a couple low range "melodic" passages. The part said bass trombone, but there were trills and rapid slurred runs that would be hard on slide trombone...would have worked great on valve trombone (isn't that what Verdi used).
I used my CC on the first rehearsal of Falstaff as I had loaned my f tuba out. I spoke to the conductor who wanted it on tuba and asked if I could use a smaller, brighter tuba, as he wanted it on tuba. Maybe someone should do a dissertation on Italian tuba usage
PS: I saw a Facebook post about someone playing a major Contrabass, low range part on f tuba. Has anyone ever tried fountains on f tuba?
Fountains and Church Windows are both tuba parts without question. But Pines is definitely a contrabass trombone part.
As for Falstaff, the part isn't for bass trombone; you're mistranslating. That part is for what we would call a BBb contrabass valve trombone (or "cimbasso" - see other thread), making all of it perfectly playable and the lowest notes quite feral!
J.c.S.
Re: Instrument for Respighi pines and fountains
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:36 am
by J.c. Sherman
russiantuba wrote:For Falstaff, all I had was my part which said bass trombone. Thanks for the clarification.
If it said that in English, then the mistranslation was done for you.
J.c.S.