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There have been many discussions about mouthpieces and several attempts to explain the dynamics of what happens between the end of the mouthpiece shank and the leadpipe (the 'gap').

There have also been many comments about how 'focused' many of the older European horns were/are.

Most of these discussions end with just more questions and perhaps some willingness to just accept things 'the way they are' or continue to search for the Holy Grail in mouthpieces.

I think the very best approach to leadpipe configuration has to be the style of receiver that was prominent on European tubas through the 80's. ... Where the leadpipe and receiver are one in the same. The taper at the end of the mouthpiece is simply allowed to flow directly into a similar taper in the leadpipe with NO gap other than maybe a slight miss-match of the taper angle.

One of my primary tubas... a Miraphone 1291-5V BBb... sports an AGR (Adjustable Gap Receiver). The horn plays well but still doesn't have the focus of any of several B & S/VMI 101 pre-80's 'stencils' I've owned. Of course... those 'stencils' all had one-piece leadpipe/receivers. I'm sure there are other factors involved but I can't help thinking that the leadpipe is what makes up much of the outstanding characteristics of the VMI 'stencils'. Miraphone, Alex, and many others also used the 'one-piece' concept. The AGR on my Miraphone can be 'dialed-in' to help optimize the mouthpiece/leadpipe/horn/player combination. But... after studying the dynamics of the AGR... I see that there is still an area at the end of the mouthpiece that can generate turbulence.

One of these days... I'm going to get some spare time to try the concept of a one-piece mouthpipe/receiver on the 1291.

Monette has taken this a little further on trumpets by building mouthpipe/receiver/mouthpieces that are all one piece.

Any thoughts on this?

Dan
You have brought up a question that I have had on mouth piece fit, let us know what you find out

Thanks again for repairing my 186, I enjoy playing the instrument again

Michael

I had a chance to play an Adams euphonium last week with the adjustable gap reciever. I was amazed at how much of a difference it made in the response and slotting. I actually found it to be the opposite of what you're describing, in that when the reciever was completely dialed in (no gap), the slots were very wide and smooth (in other words "less" focused). With the reciever wide open it produced a very focused, highly responsive sound, but slurs were difficult to play smoothly. I think that this is an idea that other manufacturers may want to pick up on. So many times I've tried a horn where I loved the sound or the response, but not both. This seems like a nice way to solve that problem.

For those who like pictures:


Supposedly from Conn, ca 1942:


That picture appears on some trumpet bulletin board and is followed by some wrangling over whether it portrays a real venturi, but in any case I suppose there must be a narrow spot somewhere around there, where the leadpipe taper and the receiver taper meet. If the internal diameter at the end of the leadpipe is larger than the mouthpiece shank (as it appears it might be in the first diagram), that waist would be somewhere inside the leadpipe/receiver tubing you propose to add; otherwise it would be at the joint where the gap used to be. (Am I close, so far?)

mceuph wrote:when the reciever was completely dialed in (no gap)

If you imagine the first diagram in `dialed in' position, I think you should see that's a third configuration - where (I think in theory, anyway) the internal diameter of the leadpipe meets the internal diameter of the mouthpiece shank. That's a different `no gap' - as opposed to the proposed European configuration, where the the leadpipe meets the outside diameter of the mouthpipe, so there's still a `step' rather than a smooth transition.

Thanks for the clarification on that Donn. I would be interested to play a horn with the European configuration just to see what it feels like.

Donn wrote:For those who like pictures:....

About the 2nd trumpet illustration.... I've NEVER seen a trumpet leadpipe with a venturi built into it. Maybe there are some renditions out there but the 'stock' trumpet leadpipes that can be purchased from leading suppliers don't fit that picture.

The inventor of the Helleberg Mouthpiece apparently held the theory that each individual horn should be matched to the perfect mouthpiece for it. He imported, among other things, tubas made for the Sousa Band players by Rudolph Sander of Wolfstein Faltz, Germany, and those tubas were not as consistent as most modern horns (although some of them were real gems). I have never liked the adjustable gap receiver, because it makes me feel a little "disconnected" from the tuba. On the other hand, I have been surprised by what a difference a good mouthpiece match makes. Helleberg may have had the best idea.
Two other factors that are sometimes overlooked are the alignment of the valves (true of both piston or rotary) and the presence of leaks in one or more joints, sometimes caused by ineffective soldering and, once for me, the total absence of solder. Either of these can affect response in odd ways.