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This is an interesting and thoughtful article discussing the 1812 Overture's becoming a patriotic performance piece in the U.S.

Via SFC Sarah Anderson, US Army Field Band Librarian on Facebook.

http://old.post-gazette.com/ae/20030704overtureae3.asp" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

An interesting irony.

Very interesting. I kinda figured it was due to the cannon part.

It's loud, it has cannons, and it's good music that plays well outdoors with fireworks.

Everything else is post-modern deconstruction and rationalization.

Why would Americans want music celebrating the War of 1812, anyway. We lost that one.

Why would Americans want music celebrating the War of 1812, anyway. We lost that one.

You lost me there. We won that war. The disaster at Bradensburg, MD, and the burning of the Capitol notwithstanding, the US Navy shut down the British on the Great Lakes, and Andrew Jackson defeated the British at New Orleans (although by that time, the Treaty of Ghent had already been signed).


SK

Repeat that often enough, and it will become true.

sloan wrote:Repeat that often enough, and it will become true.

Using that reasoning, it already has.

They just a'keep a'comin'...

"You lost me there. We won that war."

Apparently, not all American historians see the War 1812 as a "win" for the USA. Nor would us Canadians, eh?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/27 ... an-admits/

The U.S., despite patriotic feelings otherwise, did not win the war. The results of the treaty of Ghent returned all occupied territory, returned the U.S. Canada border to pre-war borders, and gave the U.S. fishing rights on the sea around Maine. Yes, the U.S. won a couple of battles, and yes Jackson defeated the troops who had just defeated Napoleon (the first time) but that a victory does not make, especially when you consider that none of the initial causes of the war were addressed in the treaty of ghent. Luckily, with Napoleon's defeat there was little need for the British to either impress American sailors or blockade French sea routes.

If the War of 1812 proved anything it was that the British could lose, the Americans could win a major war with a european power without aid from another European power, and that Americans would never make Canada a state. No one really one, and no one was given reparations, except for the british paying Americans for captured slaves whom were taken to new Brunswick.

No one won, in fact the only people were the Native Americans who, with the death of Tecumseh, lost all hope of a North American Indian Confederacy, as a British protectorate, which could have blocked A erican westward expansion

FWIW, Tchaikovsky himself wasn't very proud of this piece.

It's been good for a few $$$ over the years. God Bless America!!

bloke wrote:1/ How often is this piece performed at indoor concerts (not by wind bands with 200 - 300 in attendance - tickets $0 to $5, but) by symphony orchestras ($15 - $50 ticket prices with 1500 - 2500 in attendance) ?

- rarely -
bloke "grunt-grunt"

I seem to see it scheduled enough to say rarely is an overstatement. Here are 3 performances in the next few months just in the Chicago area.

CSO
Saturday September 29, 2012, 7:00 pm. A tour-de-force awaits as we celebrate the start of the 2012/13 season at Symphony Ball! The Women's Board of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra presents a festive evening of excitement and enchantment. Riccardo Muti and the CSO raise the curtain with the overture to Wagner's The Flying Dutchman, filled with sweeping, stormy strains that will carry you away on a wash of sound. With its hauntingly beautiful melodies, Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto is simply stunning; captivating violinist Anne-Sophie Mutter returns to the CSO to present this breathtaking work. Our jubilant evening comes to a close with the brass band and cannon fire of Tchaikovsky's invgorating 1812 Overture, commemorating Russia's defeat of Napoleon's invading forces 200 years ago. Call the Symphony Ball hotline at 312-294-3185 to order a gala package now.


If you can get into Orchestra Hall for free to see this let me know how!

Or the CSO at the Ravinia Pavillion on the 29th of July

http://www.ravinia.org/ViewDate.aspx?show=396" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Tickets $70/40 audience in the 1000's

or outside with the:

Grant Park Orchestra
Christopher Bell, conductor
Bernstein: Candide: Overture
Gould: Amber Waves
Williams: Olympic Fanfare and Theme
Copland: Old American Songs
Grofé: Mississippi Suite
Gershwin: Girl Crazy: Overture
Wendell: Sea to Shining Sea
Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overture
Sousa: The Stars and Stripes Forever
5:30 p.m. Pritzker Pavilion July 4th 2012

While free for the most part and outside the audience is maybe 100,000 I believe Fritz Kaenzig is still the principal tuba

French v Russians. Were you guys on the side of the Russians then? I know you US folk like a good scrap (as do we!) but I think this one may not have involved you......

PhilGreen wrote:French v Russians. Were you guys on the side of the Russians then? I know you US folk like a good scrap (as do we!) but I think this one may not have involved you......

Some Americans are so nationalistic that they actually believe the 1812 Overture was written by a Russian composer to commemorate the War of 1812, rather than the French invasion of Russia.

That, or their understanding of world history is just that bad. See this thread for some proof of that.

Got all excited then but it appears that you're link posting is as bad as the history lessons in the US!

As Eddie Izzard says when he introduces himself to US audiences - "I grew up in Europe, where history comes from"

I love you guys......

bloke wrote: cannons = loud = good

One of the central tenets of "cannon law" (as applied to music), isn't it?

tofu wrote:

bloke wrote:1/ How often is this piece performed at indoor concerts (not by wind bands with 200 - 300 in attendance - tickets $0 to $5, but) by symphony orchestras ($15 - $50 ticket prices with 1500 - 2500 in attendance) ?

- rarely -
bloke "grunt-grunt"

I seem to see it scheduled enough to say rarely is an overstatement. Here are 3 performances in the next few months just in the Chicago area.

And, in NYC, the NY Phil is playing it this Friday, Monday, and Tuesday.

I wonder if bloke can find me a ticket for $0-$5. If so, I'll spring for the airfare...

PhilGreen wrote:Got all excited then but it appears that you're link posting is as bad as the history lessons in the US!

Except that I didn't post any links. I underlined "that" for emphasis. This thread (the one we're posting in) is proof plenty that some Americans don't know the difference between the War of 1812 and the war Tchaikovsky was commemorating.

And it's "your," not "you're." Pet peeve of mine.

An even more paradoxical shift has happened with "Battle Hymn of the Republic." This time last year I was in a pick-up ensemble that played this, among other things, for about 2000 South Carolinians, who *stood up* for it, as if it was the national anthem.

Somewhere along the line, a whole bunch of people lost the thread, it seemed to me.