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This is my rant for what happened with the Yamaha sousaphones my school has. They were all broken so my brother and I did and inventory of what all needed to be repaired but one out of the two that was ready to play today was not finished. I'm guessing the shop that worked on them didn't even test the horns after they repaired them. There were two problems with this sousaphone when it came back. The least serious of these two was that the person that repaired it forgot to put a screw back in that holds the valves and slides section to the main body of the horn. Next problem which I put in the inventory that was attached to the bell of the sousaphone when we sent it in was that when the screw to tighten down on the neck is completely tightened, the neck still moves freely so you have to hold it to keep in in place. I think this is probably because something is bent but it could just be that exceptional build quality that Yamaha. I did notice that there is a noticeable difference in the thickness of the pipes on the necks so if you were wondering if Yamaha instruments generally have the same specs between each instrument, the answer is no. But this would not have been much of a problem for me if when I was playing it hadn't leaked air. After it was "repaired" it leaked more than it had before and the sousaphone just sounded stuffy. I'm pretty sure if they tested it before they sent it back they would have immediately found that problem and tried to fix it. Overall I just find whoever repaired these did a sloppy job, although the instruments are better than they were.
One thing the instruments probably needed but my band director could not afford was a chemical clean. How much does a chemical clean typically cost on a sousaphone?

3/ Proper use of punctuation helps. Especially when others try to read your posts.

Umm...sorry?

I'm not sure what sort of helpful reply you'd like here, other than a chem clean on a sousaphone around here costs about $100. I'm sure that varies greatly from shop to shop and location to location.

I recently sent in a sousaphone to a very reputable shop for a lot of dent removal and to have the valves rebuilt. When it was "ready", I elected to play it before any money changed hands and it was impossibly stuffy. After determining the valves were in the right places and I wasn't a cranky nut, they removed the dent ball that was left inside. I'm glad this shop doesn't perfom surgery on humans.

bloke wrote:1/ Good repair-guys will not even bother to refer to your list.
2/ Bad ones cannot be helped by any sort of list.

I am guessing they were the latter

Many years ago, I took my 40K into a reputable shop for valve alignment, and when I got it back it played like hell. They had punctured the thin metal in a couple of the channels through the pistons.

I have been very fortunate:
1) As a school boy, the local shop was a 2nd generation family business that guarded its regional reputation fiercely. Folks who moved across country would ship their horns to him for repair instead of using the techs where they went after graduation.
2) As an adult, there are a couple of techs in town I keep in close contact with on an ongoing basis and depending on the particular repair (one is better at some things, the other is better at others, just like any two folks are). I use both, stay in communication, refer my friends, etc., so we maintain a good relationship.
3) I've sent several things to various folks here on TubeNet that have come back, well, of course, stellar.

Just like establishing a relationship with a physician, lawyer, accountant, tailor, clergy, etc., how many out there take the time to establish an ongoing relationship with a tech so each of you gets to know each other's instrument needs and work product on a personal basis? It doesn't happen overnight, and if there is a foul up, if the shop is reputable, then they welcome the opportunity to sort things out. If they don't welcome the opportunity, then it is time to move on and consider other options.

bloke wrote:Back when I was in high school (even though we were furnished with very old and "econoline" instruments, and our district was just above the "poverty line") we NEVER had to send ANY of our tubas or sousaphones in for ANY repairs...

...Now why was that

...because they were imaginary?


jc

bloke wrote:Back when I was in high school (even though we were furnished with very old and "econoline" instruments, and our district was just above the "poverty line") we NEVER had to send ANY of our tubas or sousaphones in for ANY repairs...

...Now why was that

...because they were imaginary?


jc

bloke wrote:Back when I was in high school (even though we were furnished with very old and "econoline" instruments, and our district was just above the "poverty line") we NEVER had to send ANY of our tubas or sousaphones in for ANY repairs...

...Now why was that

You probably had people that played them before you that were sensible and took care of them. Also these instruments you had were probably better put together and had better solder jobs done than on these Yamahas. The instruments my brother and I were given to play were already pretty bad but we did our best with them to keep them going and treated them well but they still were nearly unplayable.

About 5 years ago, our local university marching band purchased 20 new top-of-the-line King sousaphones (I'm sure I don't have to specify the model to the TNFJ) to replace the 25-or-so worn-out Conns that were purchased a couple of years before I was an undergraduate (1982 if anyone's keeping score).

Today those Conns are in better shape than the Kings that replaced them and get "overhauled" every summer.

Todd "Not accusing DS of anything but making a general observation" S. Malicoate

MrBasseyPants wrote:

bloke wrote:Back when I was in high school (even though we were furnished with very old and "econoline" instruments, and our district was just above the "poverty line") we NEVER had to send ANY of our tubas or sousaphones in for ANY repairs...

...Now why was that

...because they were imaginary?


jc

No No No -they were quite real - it's just that they were in good shape because nobody ever played them - they were all using their Cimbassos instead for everything!

Listen to bloke's wise words. That is knowledge that sadly not exist among todays modern human beings. Better to listen and learn from those that has the knowledge. Many things would work better and last longer.
However all the instrument technicians would have less to do. So it is a double edged sword...

And also have some time to modify our day to day work instruments to make them perfect.

However if everyone do take care of their instruments irrespective if they are their own or rented or borrowed or whatever, then the whole planet would be a better place. The same should be applied to everything we humans use all the time. If the QC were better at the factories it would be even better etc. Then the technicians would really have less to do. And if the humans behavior against each other, all over the world, would be better, then everyone would benefit from that. Utopia...

It must be summer repair season - Joe is once again asking "What's the matter with KIDS today?"

Bloke,
I wonder if some of the damage to instruments that you see today is a result of changed marching styles and increased emphasis on competitions? When I marched back in the dark ages, our shows were pretty simple by today's standards, we traveled as a band once or twice a year at the most, and we functioned more as a full size pep band for home football games.

My son on the other hand had to go to a competition every weekend, and the band travelled to all away football games. And, when I saw the kind of marching moves he was required to do on the field, I was simply amazed that the instruments didn't all get trashed every season.

As it was , the only brass instruments I know of that got trashed were the half dozen or so that got run over by a truck that the school custodian drove out onto the football field while the band was rehearsing. The band had put their instruments down to practice some risky formations, and somehow the yahoo driving the truck didn't see a row of trombones and marching baritones lying in the grass!

While I am sure there are a fair number of irresponsible kids out there, I'm guessing that a fair number of the repairs you see are a result of circumstances the kids really can't control.

Call me dense, but I can't understand how ANY sort of "marching move" would possibly damage an instrument.

Throwing flags between and over the sousaphone line can lead to a lot of damage. And I saw that when I was in high school, a decade-and-a-half ago. I have no clue what they're doing these days.

When I was in high school, which wasn't that long ago, we had a single copy of Don Little's book. Based on it and some experimentation, I taught the other tuba players how to clean their horns. All of our slides and valves moved freely and our horns were polished. If the rotors didn't align properly, we'd build new rubber or cork stoppers so that they would align properly. Sure, we used electrical tape to fix leaks too often, but we generally took care of our horns. We were ethnically diverse and mostly blue collar or lower middle class (or less), but we tried to take care of what we had, even if it went against the general band ethos.

The high school I attended is still marching old Conn prototype fiberglass sousas. While I was there I took it as my responsibility to maintain each and every horn we used (12 Yamaha silver sousas, 2 old King fiberglass [yellow], and the half dozen or more old Conns). At one point we had 3 horns that sat in a "Reputable" shop in Chicagoland for over a year, sitting on top of a shelf in their shop. Needless to say they had done nothing to them. The school went and picked up the still broken sousas and let me fix them (water key corks, valve felts, cracked fiberglass, tears in the brass, etc.). Sadly the most common damage was to the Yamaha's every year at least 2-3 people would snap a valve stem off, look at me and say "Oops, I'll go grab a different horn." Nobody had any sense of value for sousaphones or tubas which made it hard to be sure that everybody had a horn to play. I can remember marching with people missing a valve every once in a while because they snapped their damn valve stems off. I look back and cringe...

Again, I'm stunned and amazed. How the heck do you snap a valve stem off unless you're trying to? I've been playing for 30 years and I've never even come close to doing that.