Shindler's List Arr for tuba, how to publish

[MackBrass]

I stumbled on this and although I have heard it before, last week I decided to arrange it for CC tuba. My question is how does someone go about publishing an arrangement of something? This was originally written for violin by John Williams for the movie Shindler's List. After listening to it I thought it would fit very nicely for tuba after a few modifications. Does anyone have any experience on publishing a new arrangement of something? Is there certain permissions you have to get or legal hurdles to jump? This is one of the most beautiful pieces I have ever played/heard and I think it would be a great addition to the tuba rep. Currently I have a pencil written arrangement that of course will need to be cleaned up a bit that I have taken from the original violin solo.

Here is a recording of my arrangement for tuba and I look forward to your feedback and advice.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIPnTNTJKM0" target="_blank

[MikeMason]

Beautiful Tom!

[ppalan]

Wonderful, beautiful playing. I would definitely be interested in that arrangement if you can get it published. I'm even thinking it would be neat to do with a band accompaniment.
Pete

[Slamson]

There are some legal hurdles that you will need to jump through, and the news on this particular work is not good at all. First off, you need a license (permission) to arrange a work BEFORE you start arranging it - the cost of which varies from publisher to publisher - but in many cases the composer will refuse to give permission to arrange one of her/his works. John Williams seldom gives permission to arrange his works except through a reputable arranger/publisher.

If by some miracle John Williams was to give permission, the license would probably cost between $250 and $350. Probably the simplest way to find out which publisher a composer uses (in this country) would be to check out ASCAP's website:

http://www.ascap.com" target="_blank" target="_blank

Sorry it's such a pain, but if somebody records your arrangement for distribution, it gets even worse.

[THE TUBA]

You would need to contact the copyright holder to obtain permission to make a derivative work. If you intend to sell arrangement rather than just perform it, that will usually require additional permissions. Until you have a license to make a new arrangement, arranging something on your own isn't (technically) legal. Don't worry, we won't tell.

There is a company that essentially acts as a middleman between arrangers and the copyright holders called CopyCat Music Licensing.

Some composers and/or copyright holders are selective about which of their compositions they allow to be re-arranged. John Williams, for example, has shut down new marching band arrangements of his compositions for the time being due to a large number of pre-existing arrangements and arrangements of questionable quality. Other times, some composers may deny derivative work rights to compositions that have special meanings to them. I think Whitacre's "When David Heard" is on his do not arrange list.

In order to maintain some control over quality, some derivative copyright holders may wish to see examples of your work or samples of the arrangement if you do not have a track record as successful arranger. You might also want to make sure the arrangement is different enough from existing arrangements to necessitate a new version.

Hope this helps!

[MackBrass]

It sounds like there is a lot more to it than I expected and with limited time on my hands, it doesn't sound feesable. Its a shame there is not easy way to make a work more accessable to other instruments unless of course you just buy the original and tweek it as I did. The problem with reading off the orginal score is that there are places that just dont fit well for tuba, or at least I should say my abilities, so there is where rewriting some sections are in order.

[greatk82]

I would recommend giving a free copy of it with the purchase of any tuba, backdated to January. In which case, i can resend my email address.

[MDORVAL]

Great playing Tom ! The arrangement is great and you sound very nice on it! I would also be really interested in buying it when available. This is one of my favorite movie soundtrack. I was curious when I saw your post, as having the original score composed for Violin but to my surprise, it was very nice! Let us know when you find an issue to your problem!
Thanks for having another great music sounding amazing on a tuba!
MD

[MackBrass]

You would need to contact the copyright holder to obtain permission to make a derivative work. If you intend to sell arrangement rather than just perform it, that will usually require additional permissions. Until you have a license to make a new arrangement, arranging something on your own isn't (technically) legal. Don't worry, we won't tell.

There is a company that essentially acts as a middleman between arrangers and the copyright holders called CopyCat Music Licensing.

Some composers and/or copyright holders are selective about which of their compositions they allow to be re-arranged. John Williams, for example, has shut down new marching band arrangements of his compositions for the time being due to a large number of pre-existing arrangements and arrangements of questionable quality. Other times, some composers may deny derivative work rights to compositions that have special meanings to them. I think Whitacre's "When David Heard" is on his do not arrange list.

In order to maintain some control over quality, some derivative copyright holders may wish to see examples of your work or samples of the arrangement if you do not have a track record as successful arranger. You might also want to make sure the arrangement is different enough from existing arrangements to necessitate a new version.

Hope this helps!

Thanks, I have reached out to them and will wait on a response for some direction.

[MackBrass]

I think you're fortunate that the publishers of John Williams' music haven't seen this post and a 'cease and desist' letter sent to you. It is an infraction to even have an arrangement written without permission of the copyright holder. If I were you, I'd delete this post for your own protection. Then follow the legal channels as suggested above.

BTW,

I would recommend giving a free copy of it with the purchase of any tuba, backdated to January. In which case, i can resend my email address.

WORST advice ever...

I see your point, since I bought my own copy and tweeked it for my own personal use, do you think that could still be an issue?

Thanks,

Tom

[MaryAnn]

Is this an arrangement or a transcription? If a transcription, there are those of us who can put the purchased violin music in front of us and just transpose it. I don't see how that could be illegal.

So question for the cognoscenti : do transcriptions run into the same copyright problems as arrangements do? Like, if I have a duet for two flutes that works really well on two trumpets, and I transcribe it but don't change it in any other way, is that a copyright problem?

MA

[eupher61]

knuxie knows of what he speaks. Certainly, playing it off the original published score is not a violation. It is MY UNDERSTANDING, though, that a written arrangement is a violation. That is interpreted as intent to distribute. Sounds like illicit drug laws.

But, Tom, yes, please ,for your own sake, do NOT do anything as far as performing off of your own chart. Use the print, and do with it what you want, but not in writing.

There are many who scoff at such things.

If the knuxies, John Williamses, Barbara Yorks, Pendereckis, et al of the world made no money from the music they wrote, we'd have no more quality music. Same for the pop/hiphop/country writers. Not to mention the performers. That is the real crime of file sharing.

[MackBrass]

knuxie knows of what he speaks. Certainly, playing it off the original published score is not a violation. It is MY UNDERSTANDING, though, that a written arrangement is a violation. That is interpreted as intent to distribute. Sounds like illicit drug laws.

But, Tom, yes, please ,for your own sake, do NOT do anything as far as performing off of your own chart. Use the print, and do with it what you want, but not in writing.

There are many who scoff at such things.

If the knuxies, John Williamses, Barbara Yorks, Pendereckis, et al of the world made no money from the music they wrote, we'd have no more quality music. Same for the pop/hiphop/country writers. Not to mention the performers. That is the real crime of file sharing.

The first thing I did was buy the violin solo and I did play off the chart as written, my edits were on the score itself to make it more feasible for CC tuba. Examples of what I did were basic, down 8va for some things and removing/adding some notes, adding tempo changes where appropriate, changing dynamics, as well as adding turn that was not written. Like all music I play and study, I have fond myself tweaking it to make it more my own and more enjoyable to play. The thing about this I would like to see is a tuba version that is accessible to all in the brass family. For now, my sole intention is for personal use as I have no intention on filling up a hall and making money on it or distributing it. I cant remember the last time I bought and played/performed a piece of music where adding or taking away from the original was not done to personalize it. Are we not allowed to become artists with what we play? do we have to play exactly what on the page? I sure hope not as music would become very boring and its something that I will never do. If the above is all wrong, than I have been wrong for a very long time.

If I can get this arranged for tuba, I will let you all know.

[muttenstrudel]

Great playing! Love it!

[DavidB]

Anything arranged or transcribed from music NOT in the public domain is a violation of copyright. Tom, if you played this in your house only (no outside performance), no violation is made. One you put that recording on this forum, you violated the copyright law.
...

I would disagree that posting a video of a performance of a copyrighted work is necessarily a copyright violation. Specifically, there is a fair use exemption that includes public performance where the performer is neither directly nor indirectly compensated, and where the audience has neither directly nor indirectly paid a fee for admission.

The band director mentioned above performing an arranged copyrighted work might not be able to claim this exemption if he had an audience who paid admission, even if the admission fee was not specifically for the performance but instead for the sporting event.

[PMeuph]

Anything arranged or transcribed from music NOT in the public domain is a violation of copyright. Tom, if you played this in your house only (no outside performance), no violation is made. One you put that recording on this forum, you violated the copyright law.
...

I would disagree that posting a video of a performance of a copyrighted work is necessarily a copyright violation. Specifically, there is a fair use exemption that includes public performance where the performer is neither directly nor indirectly compensated, and where the audience has neither directly nor indirectly paid a fee for admission.

The band director mentioned above performing an arranged copyrighted work might not be able to claim this exemption if he had an audience who paid admission, even if the admission fee was not specifically for the performance but instead for the sporting event.

However, since Youtube now issues payouts to qualified video makers, using money earned from advertising, posting a video on Youtube could be seen as direct or indirect compensation.

[pgym]

Anything arranged or transcribed from music NOT in the public domain is a violation of copyright. Tom, if you played this in your house only (no outside performance), no violation is made. One you put that recording on this forum, you violated the copyright law.
...

I would disagree that posting a video of a performance of a copyrighted work is necessarily a copyright violation. Specifically, there is a fair use exemption that includes public performance where the performer is neither directly nor indirectly compensated, and where the audience has neither directly nor indirectly paid a fee for admission.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Title 17 of the US Code ("copyright law") DOES NOT grant the purchaser of a non-infringing copy of a copyrighted work the right to perform the work in a public setting, only the right to use the music in a non-public place within the normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances.

The "fair use exemption" does not even enter into consideration because posting in a forum accessible to the general public is necessarily an infringement of copyright law.

The "fair use exemption" to Title 17 specifically identifies the public performance of a copyrighted work without permission of the rights holder as an infringement in most circumstances, whether or not the performer is compensated, either directly or indirectly. The sole exceptions recognized as "fair use" are performances (a) in the course of face-to-face teaching activities of a nonprofit educational institution; (b) in the course of services at a place of worship or other religious assembly; (c) by a governmental body or a nonprofit agricultural or horticultural organization, in the course of an annual agricultural or horticultural fair or exhibition conducted by such body or organization; or (d) in the course of a social function which is organized and promoted by a nonprofit veterans’ organization or a nonprofit fraternal organization to which the general public is not invited, provided that the proceeds from the performance, after deducting the reasonable costs of producing the performance, are used exclusively for charitable purposes and not for financial gain. (Note that for purposes of the fair use exception, Title 17 specifically excludes from the definition of "nonprofit fraternal organization").

[DavidB]

Why did you skip right over 17 U.S.C. § 110(4)?

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, the following are not infringements of copyright: [...]

(4) performance of a nondramatic literary or musical work otherwise than in a transmission to the public, without any purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage and without payment of any fee or other compensation for the performance to any of its performers, promoters, or organizers, if--
(A) there is no direct or indirect admission charge

Sure, you can argue over what exactly constitutes a "transmission to the public," but this exemption is definitely there.

[pgym]

Why did you skip right over 17 U.S.C. § 110(4)?

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, the following are not infringements of copyright: [...]

(4) performance of a nondramatic literary or musical work otherwise than in a transmission to the public, without any purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage and without payment of any fee or other compensation for the performance to any of its performers, promoters, or organizers, if--
(A) there is no direct or indirect admission charge.

Sure, you can argue over what exactly constitutes a "transmission to the public," but this exemption is definitely there.

§106(4) is not relevant because the phrase "otherwise than in a transmission to the public" specifically excludes posting a performance copyrighted work to a public forum from fair use.

Furthermore, §513 clearly presumes online distribution to fall within the definition of "transmission."

[MackBrass]

David also overlooked the fact the piece was not played directly from the score. The OP admitted to 'tweaking' the work...changing dynamics, adding notes, etc., and writing these tweaks out as a separate score. This makes this an ARRANGEMENT and definitely not fair use. The fact he wants to make this arrangement available to his friends is a HUGE no-no without permission. Look at the title...he's even asking how he can publish this arrangement. 'Fair use' is not even in the ballpark with this one. That video needs to be pulled...quickly.

A couple of things to clarify are:

1. I am not going to make this available to the public without going through the correct channels; there is no intention of giving a copy to my friends or students.
2. The changes I made to my purchased copy is no different than someone buying the Vaughan Williams and adding their own tempo's, dynamics or adding/changing a few notes to personalize the piece for their own performance. There is not a pro out there I know of that doesn’t keep a pencil on hand at all times to mark reminders within their music of their intentions on what they want to do. If I am wrong here than every piece of music I own is all messed up.
3. The piece was played directly from the piece of paper with the solo on it that came with the piano accompaniment, not a hand written piece.

My Question is this, where do we have to draw the line when it comes to performing a piece of music that we purchase? Are we allowed to make it our own? Are we allowed to make changes to the dynamics? Why can't we change what’s on the page to make something more accessible to our abilities? If I take something down or up an octave, am I in violation of copyright laws?

One thing I ask knuxie is this, please dont put words in my mouth as to what my intentions are. My original post was simply asking, how does one go about getting an arrangement published? I called this an arrangement because it would be written with the tuba in mind and not the violin. The intention of the post was to make it legal for others to have access to not just this great piece but maybe others.