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Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:29 am**

Last night at a brass ensemble rehearsal, we sight-read some new stuff. One of the pieces had a part marked "Bb tuba"; no problem, right? But, it was written in bass clef AND was transposed as if it were a Bb trumpet playing it, ie., it was up a whole step from concert pitch.If it were written in treble clef, I wouldn't have been at all surprised, but bass clef----?

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:54 am**

You've read your first real "brass band" piece. Congrats.

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:01 pm**

UncleBeer wrote:You've read your first real "brass band" piece. Congrats.

But, wouldn't a "real" brass band piece have been written in treble clef, not bass clef?

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:21 pm**

You see this more and more from publishers who offer "world editions" of their music. It seems that the Low Countries (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) have some segment of players who are quite used to this. I suspect that this is common practice at publishers such as De Haske.

The first time I played the De Meij "Lord of the Rings", I was handed a "Bb tuba" part like this. About 2 measures in, it became obvioius that something was very wrong. I managed to get the Bb bass treble clef version and use that, but for some odd reason, the C-bass bass clef parts were nowhere to be found.

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:39 pm**

a growing collection of beginning and second year band materials with world music parts printed to accomodate the previously listed parts. I ran into the tuba partsmentioned, as well as treble clef trombone parts.

Tom Mason

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:56 pm**

Lew wrote:
UncleBeer wrote:You've read your first real "brass band" piece. Congrats.
Lew is correct: I've actually played 1 or 2 "real" brass band parts, and this wasn't one of 'em!

But, wouldn't a "real" brass band piece have been written in treble clef, not bass clef?

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:12 pm**

The "tenor tuba" part in Don Quixote is in transposed bass clef (as I discovered in the first rehearsal)

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:15 pm**

whoever wrote:
Lew is correct: I've actually played 1 or 2 "real" brass band parts, and this wasn't one of 'em!

1 or 2's not a lot, is it?

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:43 pm**

UncleBeer wrote:
whoever wrote:
Lew is correct: I've actually played 1 or 2 "real" brass band parts, and this wasn't one of 'em!

1 or 2's not a lot, is it?

Let's see---1 or 2 a week over 35 years----that's: hey, that's too much math for a guy who gets patronised by someone calling himself Uncle Beer!

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:10 pm**

Chuck(G) wrote: It seems that the Low Countries (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) have some segment of players who are quite used to this. I suspect that this is common practice at publishers such as De Haske.

Well, since we come across all these different notations all the time, we have to get used to them... And by being able to cope, we perpetuate the confusion

Re: Montre8 ; the spelling is correct

(I lived about a mile away from the place)

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:39 pm**

I think the transposed bass parts are solely a Low Countries thing, different from the British brass band tradition. I've never seen a brass band chart use Bb bass clef.

I remember the confusion De Meij's LOTR caused the first time we read it also.

Similarly, there's a Dutch arrangement of An American in Paris that calls for 2 baritones, 2 "tubas", and basses. After the conductor pointing out that the "tubas" were not being heard, we eventually discovered that the score AND the parts were mislabeled and the part was obviously meant for euphoniums. Trouble was we didn't have enough people to cover all 6 combined parts.

Good times.

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:57 pm**

I've played a bunch of gigs with this peruvian band from queens (nyc) where they give me music that's written in this way. Luckily, I just think C fingerings and play my Bb sousaphone and it comes out alright. After the 3rd time thru them I remember that I can play this stuff by ear better than I can confuse myself by reading, but this is easy stuff to begin with. Usually by the end of one of these gigs, I can't think either fingerings, but it's dark and I've learned a new language courtesy of this clear peruvian booze. There seems to be a South American school of brass playing that works this way though, most of the guys on these gigs are 'players', and trading horns from trumpet to bone/euph or tuba seems no problem to them, except where they hold their cigarettes when they play trombone. Anybody else do these gigs? Peace.

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:33 pm**

ArnoldGottlieb wrote: I can't think either fingerings, but it's dark and I've learned a new language courtesy of this clear peruvian booze.

Arnold, I've never played with a Peruvian band, but I have partaken of some potent South American clear stuff. Would this be the elixir you're talking about?

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:19 pm**

Chuck(G) wrote:
The first time I played the De Meij "Lord of the Rings", I was handed a "Bb tuba" part like this. About 2 measures in, it became obvioius that something was very wrong. I managed to get the Bb bass treble clef version and use that, but for some odd reason, the C-bass bass clef parts were nowhere to be found.

Yep, we ahd the same problem. Unfortunately, I was the only one in the section who could read treble clef, so that evening I took the Bb part home, punched it into Sibelius and hit the transpose button. Instant no-more-trouble. We printed a large nuber of copies and kept them on hand, which was beneficial when one of the Bands at UGA's JanFest played "Hobbits" and ran into the same problem.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:19 am**

It's true, a lot of the European publishers are sending these parts in their Brass Band sets now, along with the "standard" BBb Bass treble clef parts.

I rip them up as soon as they are handed out, especially in youth bands, as many a learner can go a whole piece without realising what's wrong or knowing what to do about it. I've found if I just "hide" them, they're the first parts to be given out when spares are needed!

I think it's bad enough having bass clef, Bb treble and Eb treble as it is thankyou very much!

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:55 am**

Adam C. wrote: Similarly, there's a Dutch arrangement of An American in Paris that calls for 2 baritones, 2 "tubas", and basses. After the conductor pointing out that the "tubas" were not being heard, we eventually discovered that the score AND the parts were mislabeled and the part was obviously meant for euphoniums. Trouble was we didn't have enough people to cover all 6 combined parts.

Good times.

Here in Belgium, a tuba IS a euphonium. A tuba is called bass tuba. (Only in Belgium, not in Holland) So the score wasn't mislabled, it was just labled correctly for a tiny little corner of the world.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:40 am**

scottw wrote:
UncleBeer wrote:
whoever wrote:
Lew is correct: I've actually played 1 or 2 "real" brass band parts, and this wasn't one of 'em!

1 or 2's not a lot, is it?
... a guy who gets patronised by someone calling himself Uncle Beer!

Uncle Beer cautiously backs away from confrontation, as scottw clearly knows how to use Big Font.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:02 pm**

Well, how does this info reflect on the flames on the band director who told his student that when he got a CC tuba he had to transpose?

MA, who thinks the band director was just using "transpose" instead of "use different fingerings" to try to communicate.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:11 pm**

MaryAnn wrote:Well, how does this info reflect on the flames on the band director who told his student that when he got a CC tuba he had to transpose?

MA, who thinks the band director was just using "transpose" instead of "use different fingerings" to try to communicate.

I believe you are most likely correct, Mary Ann. I would not use such terminology to describe this, at least ordinarily, however I might include such in a description to a student. In such a case, I believe it would be very important to indicate to the student that he/she must learn new fingerings, however.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:12 pm**

Thanks Corbasse, good information for the next time we do a Belgian band piece

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