TubeNet

I currently have a st. petersburg tuba 202n. I am looking for a mouthpiece that allows me to get up in the upper range of the instrument and the lower side as well. I was looking at the Giddings & Webster Alan Baer Bayamo series mouthpiece and i was wondering if anyone out there has one like that and what it does for you.

alan2569 wrote:I am looking for a mouthpiece that allows me to get up in the upper range of the instrument and the lower side as well.

Sorry to break it to you, but there is no such "magic." You have to do that on your own.

At the risk of being helpful ... if I were qualified to give people advice on mouthpieces, I'd suggest something a lot smaller.

If you think that shows we don't really understand what you're looking for, you might add some details, like what you're playing now, what attracted you to that particular mouthpiece, maybe what kind of repertoire you normally play and specifically what you're looking for in the way of range. That doesn't really make it possible to answer your question, as really only a couple people here know how to do that `over the wire' and they'd need to spend more time talking to you, but at least it gives some direction to our BS.

I don't know what kind of mouthpiece i am playing on it doesn't have a name. But i need a mouthpiece that gives me more help and control on the upper range of the instrument. For example a high C above the staff. I was just looking for a different one because i think i could do better

alan2569 wrote:But i need a mouthpiece that gives me more help and control on the upper range of the instrument. For example a high C above the staff. I was just looking for a different one because i think i could do better

Probably right. It's a bit complicated to predict, though, as there are several parameters - rim shape, cup diameter, throat diameter, etc. - and on the human side of the equation, our issues are even more complicated. So ... as I said, there are a couple people we know about who can really talk to you about what might work well for you, but it's pretty much beyond the scope of forum posts like this.

So if you want to pursue this on your own, it means buying some mouthpieces to see what works. Used mouthpieces are good, as they often cost considerably less so you can afford to try more.

KiltieTuba wrote:

alan2569 wrote:I was just looking for a different one because i think i could do better

What about practicing?

I tried that once... it resulted in improvement, so I stopped.

alan2569 wrote: For example a high C above the staff.

I used to be able to hit a pretty solid high C with a Bach 18 on my Alex after many hours of the "P" word mentioned above.

Practicing long tones will help you increase your range in both directions. Start in a register that feels and sounds good and move outward from there in half steps, like c to c# back to c in half or whole notes. Do this as high as you can but don't allow yourself to pinch or do anything wacky to your embouchure. Let the air do the work. Over time your upper register will widen. Same thing for the low register. Just be sure to rest your chops and do some low register playing after high register practice to get the blood flowing and, for lack of a better term, center your embouchure again.

All of that being said, not all mouthpieces are equal, and more often than not, what is good for one does not work for another. I suggest you take your horn to a store close to you that has a variety of tuba mouthpieces and try some out if they let you. that is the best way to find the mouthpiece that works for YOU.

Although practice fixes a lot of things, you DO need to have the right equipment. If you are using whatever mouthpiece you happen to have, there's a really good chance it is not the best mouthpiece match for you and the tuba. It might be a decent middle-of-the-road mouthpiece you have, or it might be way off. I have no clue, but being unmarked is probably a sign that you should move on to something different and then start the mouthpiece game. I mean really, if you don't know what you have, how can you know what's next is any different (a fault of the manufacturer, not of you!).

Think of it like running shoes. If you have shoes that are too big or too small, you will still be able to run, just not as effectively (or comfortably) as if they were the right size. You would learn to work around the problems of the shoes, and eventually spend a lot of time and effort to make it work. Or, you could reject the bad shoes, and find a pair that is the right size, comfort, etc. They won't make you a faster runner, better form, etc., but it will make you more efficient, and make sure that it's not the shoes that are holding you back. And making that switch from "wrong shoes" to "right shoes" is something that mostly only happens with any significance a few times. More often, it's just switching from "right shoes" to different "right shoes."

Picking a tuba mouthpiece is the same kind of thing.

Back to the original topic, the GW Baer and the GW Bayamo are two different mouthpieces. I don't know the Bayamo, but I used a Baer for many years and liked it a lot. I liked the MMVI (flat) rim better than the original (rounded), but that's all a matter of personal preference.

Not to make this sounds like a miracle worker, but after playing on a Loud LM-12 (a very shallow cup) for a few years I think it helped my range quite a bit.

I first tried it just for fun, and it definitely helped me play higher (the first tuba TubaChristmas music was much easier to play). it also helped me to play pedals much better. Over time, its effectiveness has worn off as I don't use it as a crutch anymore since my range has increased while playing...uh I mean practicing...with the LM-12.

The LM-12 isn't magical, it does come with some caveats. It is harsh and lacks that super fat sound that you can get with a deeper cup mouthpiece....on a sousaphone this works (usually). In an ensemble with a few tubas...you can usually sneak it in as well. If you are the only horn.....not so much.

Try it... (or any other mouthpiece like it)....it may be just what you were looking for. It did help me out quite a bit.

jc

OK, an LM12 could work - under some extremely unlikely circumstances! I was thinking, no, that's insane, no one would buy a St Pete with the intention to sound like that, but what if he's in a Balkan brass band? Which you wouldn't commonly do with a St Pete either, but I've seen our esteemed colleague snuffleufigus (sp?) use a Hirsbrunner or something, and maybe he's influenced a whole generation of young tuba players ... mind you, I'm rather sure he wasn't using an LM12, though.

Anyway, while the LM12 may be a bizarre idea, it illustrates what seems to be a fact about mouthpiece size, apparently it's about volume to some extent - so a shallow mouthpiece can have some of the same benefits as a narrow one. And if your face is such that narrow mouthpieces don't work well, it's good to know that. The effect on tone is very different, though, a deeper mouthpiece will lend itself to a fuller, more `legit' sound. Schilke 66 is a classic example of a medium size but deep mouthpiece, though it's somewhat common for people with German style rotary valve tubas to prefer a more round-bottom cup than that.

I wasted years trying to play high notes the wrong way, pretty much as simple as that. Get a supportive mouthpiece, then make sure you're not making it harder than it needs to be.

I have discovered the holy grail of all range issues. It can be viewed here:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m732s ... o1_400.jpg

Unfortunately, range is in the player, not the equipment. Any tuba is pretty well capable of playing fairly well on a high C, but someone has to activate it by buzzing that frequency into it.

Also you mentioned the "Alan Baer Bayamo" mouthpiece. These are actually two different mouthpieces - the Alan Baer which is a medium sized mouthpiece and the Bayamo which is rather a large mouthpiece.

I suggest LESSONS and PRACTICE as the best ways to accomplish this. Right now you are looking for Notes - not Sounds. The notes are all in you but you haven't figured out the gimmick necessary to produce them. What you want out of the mouthpiece, along with ease of playing, is the SOUND that it helps the horn produce.

There is no quick fix for what you are looking for. A smaller mouthpiece will help you get the high notes, but will cost you on the low notes. A large mouthpiece will help with the low notes, but you will lose a lot of security in the high range.

Sorry for the bad news.

Roger

I think these 4 mouthpieces work reasonably well for St. Pete tubas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g8LmArqKHM

I'd try a 24AW if I were you......

Practice.

There are several good "all around" mouthpieces, which some of us would argue for 1,200 days. But a Conn Helleberg (or copy), a Bach 18, or a Miraphone C4 are all decent mouthpieces which are good starting points (I don't like the 24AW - too teeny, but others disagree, as will people with my C4 assertion)

But find something made in large numbers which will keep the cost down and show that it's a well regarded, oft-used mouthpiece. The, sorry, you'll have to practice. No substitute. When your high range feels like you want it to, then go on the mouthpiece market and and find what gets the sound you want up there... and down there.

Find a comfortable, popular mouthpiece, and hit the woodshed.

J.c.S.

Funnel? Bowl? I have never seen a St Pete in person, but it doesn't matter, right - similar enough to 4/4 rotaries made by Miraphone, Cerveny and others? Slight preference for bowl, am I right?

Donn wrote:Funnel? Bowl? I have never seen a St Pete in person, but it doesn't matter, right - similar enough to 4/4 rotaries made by Miraphone, Cerveny and others? Slight preference for bowl, am I right?

I'd agree with that.

While I agree the St. Petersburg is very different... I still personally prefer a deap bowl for it.

JcS (who thought he'd clarify his previously vague statement).

All right! So, on the second page, and the sixth day, maybe we have another answer (besides LM 12!)

How about a Laskey 28G? hornguys' favorite Laskey for the 186, by the way. Ordinary width ("28" == 1.28 diameter), deep bowl ("G" - though really don't have any idea how deep.)

Seriously, bloke....the kid is looking for advice. Can't you be helpful once in your life?

Nothing wrong with the 24AW. Like any other mouthpiece, it's not for everyone. Especially bloke. Although, I have been promised evidence that he uses one daily, with some special customizations. I'll post pics when I get the proof.