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+1! My only niggle with my 186 is exactly that: the nested 4th valve slide which is practically useless except to "set-and-forget." Fortunately, on mine, low Eb is in tune with 124 with just a little push or air acceleration to bring up the pitch.

As long as we're making wishes:

Dear Miraphone: please build a 186 that isn't 1/2 bell. Surely this can be wrapped more compactly. Or at least try. Acoustics suggest this shouldn't be a big deal. Thank you in advance.

Just what I plan for the 186 CC I got from Chris Olka. Really not too hard to do. 1 leg on either side of the valves. It can all be done with readily available parts even. Must get to this project as soon as I get the case I'm building done and finish the rebuild, with several mods, done on my Martin Eb.

"add 1 leg on either side of the valves"

My 1960 186 CC 5u has a brace at each end of the rotor set. Almost touching the rotor casings.
I have always wanted to keep my horn origional, but that 1.5 comb on the bottom bow is really getting to me.
About 8 years ago I just had to have valves so... HB21. At that point the 186 went to Lee Stofer for a complete going over and ironing out decades of wear and tear including bell work in Germany. (my New Orleans jazz years were very hard on the 186). Now I have returned to my old mira friend. Lee did an outstanding job and now I have a "like new" vintage 186.
The 60's era 186s with the larger lead pipe are just wonderful. I am so glad this horn made it through my "need something else" years. One happy Miraphonist in the deep South.

UncleBeer wrote:As long as we're making wishes:

Dear Miraphone: please build a 186 that isn't 1/2 bell. Surely this can be wrapped more compactly. Or at least try. Acoustics suggest this shouldn't be a big deal. Thank you in advance.

Ditto. I think a compact wrap allows one to hear oneself better than a kaiser wrap does. But wouldn't this just make it a smaller-flared 191?

Do you mean a more *open* wrap? I'm not sure it could be wrapped much more compactly.

Bloke and anyone else interested in a more perfect Miraphone BB186,

Just order the Miraphone BB186-5V (Yes, 5 valve) and you will have what you want plus a little more. The 5th valve upgrade on Miraphone is less than it is on Meinl Weston and Cerveny tubas. Also on the 5 valve version, they have the 4th valve loop like you want. It's in the back with a longer slide pull. If someone is going to play a BBb with the golden ear that must pull a slide for every 5 cents in pitch, then they should be getting the 5th valve, too. Again, I consider plus or minus 10 cents in-tune as even a HACK LIKE ME will lip that in an ensemble setting without even thinking about it.

bort wrote:Do you mean a more *open* wrap? I'm not sure it could be wrapped much more compactly.

I mean the bell sticks out of the body by a foot and a half. I'd like the great qualities of the 186/188 but in a more piggy-ish form.

UncleBeer wrote:

bort wrote:Do you mean a more *open* wrap? I'm not sure it could be wrapped much more compactly.

I mean the bell sticks out of the body by a foot and a half. I'd like the great qualities of the 186/188 but in a more piggy-ish form.

Ah, I thought you meant taller bows instead of shorter bell.

bort wrote:

UncleBeer wrote:

bort wrote:Do you mean a more *open* wrap? I'm not sure it could be wrapped much more compactly.

I mean the bell sticks out of the body by a foot and a half. I'd like the great qualities of the 186/188 but in a more piggy-ish form.

Ah, I thought you meant taller bows instead of shorter bell.

Sounds like a pig would be a better fit to you...

J.c.S.

A few small improvements are in order. However... it's my opinion that the 'stovepipe' (long) bell is what makes the 186 what it is. A shorter, compact wrap would mean a totally different horn... and end to the great 186 as we know it.

The same basic design is what's made this horn the most consistent tuba on the market for over 50 years. LEAVE IT ALONE!

TubaTinker wrote: A shorter, compact wrap would mean a totally different horn... and end to the great 186 as we know it.

No real reason they couldn't make both models.

bloke wrote:Isn't something like this already available?

Not really interested in a Hirsbrunner (or its Chinese clone). Anyways, isn't the 192 only in BBb?

PT-3 or PT-4?

Beer, since a short stack 186 is no longer a 186, something like a rotary 1291, but with the valve section of a 186, right?
A further question, just thinking way outside the box that I've never been in...what if a side/front loaded tuba had the bell on the OPPOSITE side? Would another wrap be possible somewhere to make the same valve section usable but on a shorter bell? Would that so completely change acoustically that it is unplayable?

Or, even, physically change so much that it's unholdable?

Hello,
Don't change this tuba. There are lots of choices these days if you want a different style of sound. The 186 has great sound and pitch, lots of personality, records well, and for ergonomics can't be beat. I have seen many different sized performers use this model. Mirafone has sat back and smiled over the years, as performers have tried to pressure them
to adapt the 186 to the current trend. Even repairmen seem to like them.
A funny thing though - although everybody refers to this tuba as a "classic model" along the lines of Conn 8H or a Bach #37, nobody seems to play one!
A few years ago my former teacher borrowed it, later saying "how can you play this thing?".

I'd like an optional 2nd valve kicker.

bloke wrote:...off-topic...

My apologies for posting in your thread, Bloke.

If you are sending that to Miraphone, in Germany, than I recommend you rewrite it without all the parenthesis. As a natural english speaker, I had to slow down and think about your words to understand. I am not trying to be a smart *** here. Even though some of the employees understand english, this will be tough. Keep it simple if you want to get somewhere with this. I went to the Meinl Weston Factory back in 2005 for a tour and the person who spoke the best english was very weak.

Stefan

I emailed Miraphone a few years ago and they also have a 4th valve tubing kit for the 191 (same problem).