TubeNet

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/ ... eason.html

With light of this... one could question the validity of intense study of orchestral rep (and its supporting/related chamber music) as the main or central (coveted) focus of tuba students who wish to eventually perform professionally... as well as hornmakers (who primarily sell to said students) whose main stock is also geared towards such playing.

I am NOT talking about only money here, I am moreso talking about the simple notion of *sheer performance opportunity*... the opportunity to play the tuba for the world.


I love orchestral tuba playing as much as any person on this board and of course value its artistic place, but in light of all this, I’m curious as to your thoughts in either direction...

...grab a beer and discuss.



peace

Joe

That's a great link. Sorry to hear about MN, those groups were sources of great local pride when I was growing up.

The discussion on the page is good, I would also submit that the newest music has not enjoyed the success that new music had when the composers were as well known as George Gershwin, Aaron Copland, Bela Bartok, etc. The popular acceptance of new music by the concert going public needs to grow and then the big groups will have a better chance.

Why do you use the word "still"? Was it ever a good focus for tuba players desiring to play "professionally"?
Did orchestra gigs EVER represent the majority of jobs available to tuba players?

And...is it really much different for any other instrument? Consider the piano. How many piano jobs involve playing with an orchestra? Flute? Clarinet? *maybe* violin, viola, and cello - but certainly not double bass.

Focussing on orchestral excerpts and orchestral style playing is "learning to the test". And, I'll submit - if that's the *only* style you can play at the pro level, I suspect you're not that good as an orchestral player.

Great players are always musicians first and note producers second.

That said...studying orchestral music (as a major part of a more general program) is an excellent way to
learn about music. But, study more than the "tuba excerpts" and study in ways that go beyond "producing all the notes at the right time with the right articulation and a world class sound".

sloan wrote:Focussing on orchestral excerpts and orchestral style playing is "learning to the test". And, I'll submit - if that's the *only* style you can play at the pro level, I suspect you're not that good as an orchestral player.

Great players are always musicians first and note producers second.

That said...studying orchestral music (as a major part of a more general program) is an excellent way to
learn about music. But, study more than the "tuba excerpts" and study in ways that go beyond "producing all the notes at the right time with the right articulation and a world class sound".

That first sentence is perhaps the best I have ever heard it put.

Ah, Marty beat me to it. Bloke said some interesting things in his post as well. In any study, the "focus" should be overall exposure to all variety of music, not (as sloan said) learning to the "test". Not everyone has the "feel" for all kinds of music; some do best with free form/improvisational, while others do better with the structure and order of set pieces.

I look forward to this conversation...

Ally"a hack amateur who loves playing her tuba anyway"House

GREAT and thoughtful replies, thank you. Keep them coming...

I agree with just about everything said here, I was merely curious about what the tuba community at large thought...

I've always felt that evolution is paramount -- and not just out of necessity. ...evolution in as many directions as possible. It's sort of a responsibility as we play the youngest of all brass instruments; an instrument that is still fighting to secure its place in the world. It always has disheartened me a bit to see so many players of the youngest of all brass instruments focus so heartedly merely on old or historic music. Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with said old music!, it's just not the only thing out there.

THE WAY THAT WE WILL CREATE MORE [paying] OPPORTUNITIES FOR OURSELVES is to... well... create more gigs; to fit the tuba into more styles of music... versus an obsession with one which might no longer be as viable as it once was. (at least for now, hopefully, many things are cyclical)

I'll wrap up with saying as someone who has been fighting it out for a while that it would behoove academic institutions to teach up-and-coming players to have an "entrepreneurial" approach to tuba playing. Step away from the page. And hopefully, supporting industry will be able to take a chance and provide the players with the tools to look at things that way.


Thanks again, folks.

Son of a bitch, that really sucks about Minnesota. My wife is from Minnesota, so we are out there a lot. One of the things I like about it is that it seems like a supportive and appreciative of the arts. I shudder when I think that there are probably a LOT of people who simply look at the numbers (I can hear it now... "a cut of $40,000 and you're still making $xx,xxx??). Total crap.

Anyway, here's another perspective on it. With so many groups folding, there are surely still a lot of people interested in playing, listening, and supporting groups of some size. Any chance that the semi-pro and amateur scene could be greatly improved by this? Like back to basics, get people interested in the music and the performances where they live. Then it might be expected that people will leave home and pay good money for performances.

I won't be around to see it, thank God, but I suspect in many of your lifetimes live musical performance will cease to exist. My grandaughter is a seven year old violinist and I doubt she will have a venue at my age. Music will still exist but it will be created and performed on some variation of computer. It might not even need to get to the sound wave stage but just be transmitted directly into the brain with electrical signals.

While I understand the sentiment regarding not focusing on any specific genre of musical study, to win any audition for a job (however tenuous that position may be) it still remains true that we have live auditions and most times the best player that day wins the job. Does it make sense NOT to focus on that specific genre of music if not focusing on it leaves you less well prepared compared to others that audition for the type of job you seek? I'm all for versatility in one's playing and education but being good enough to win a gig (any gig) seems like the primary goal to me. I don't know of any orchestral job that will excuse your inadequate performance of any requirement of the audition simply because you can also lay down a great jazz bass line or do an amazing improvisation to a standard blues progression. I advocate versatility in my own studio (I once had a student who played a Jimi Hendrix style Star Spangled Banner on the guitar to start off his masters level tuba recital) but the direction of a student's education with me often is based more on what the student's interests and goals are than any sort of pre-programmed, tenure inducing blueprint. My experience is that you don't study to be an orchestral tuba player because of the chicks, the fame, or the money. You'll likely get none of those. Students that follow that path generally see it as a calling of sorts so preparing them to be successful in that field is the prime goal. If you doubt that it takes that kind of dedication and focus to be successful on today's audition circuit, then I suggest that you are wrong to believe that.

Jay Bertolet wrote:My experience is that you don't study to be an orchestral tuba player because of the chicks, the fame, or the money. You'll likely get none of those. Students that follow that path generally see it as a calling of sorts

Good answer. Teaching towards a student's calling... and towards the art itself.

I am one who has always lived by and advocated that. A factor of it is that we tend to (need to?) dive into such things unabashedly, and maybe even... haphazardly. Honestly, that's probably a big part of the extreme dedication that's needed.
I'm cool with that. (I tend to be sorta reckless myself!)

I'm not really taking sides here... just trying to speak some thoughts outward... (I personally think studying orchestral playing is a good part of it all. I wouldn't trade my intense orchestral study for anything, nor do I regret it. I wouldn't want anyone to ever think that)

Overall... my big question is what can the 'community at large'... (performers, professors, students, amateurs, industry) do to make it so that we are getting MORE gigs?... not losing them. How can we proactively keep the flame lit? Reading about this country losing *major*, legendary artistic institutions completely breaks my heart. How do we keep things rolling without just feeding a dying beast?

It's a rhetorical question of course... but something for thought as the world, country, and music and art scenes and businesses are in a huge state of flux right now.

I'm involved in many different types and scenes of music, and just like the orchestral world, EVERY scene is in a state of redefining itself. It's my strong opinion that it's the ones with the courage and foresight to reinvent themselves are the ones that will have the best chance of survival, much less, impact.

Personally, for the tuba and it's devoted players (Euphs too) I think it's a bold and positive opportunity for us.


Thanks again everyone for your kind input. It's a nice read. Keep it coming!

bloke wrote:When the entire definition of a job is a list of (probably not even 100...??) little segments of tunes (likely, less than 100 minutes of music), isn't that at least some sort of indication that it might be a good idea to expand one's horizons?

Agreed, but doesn't it become untenable to have really expanded horizons and be unemployed? I realize that my original response only really addresses my personal opinions of how I teach students and what I believe to be in their best interests. My response does not address at all Tubajoe's original question of how we make more opportunities for ourselves. I wish I had better ideas and advice about how to tackle that issue, I might be living a little more comfortably if I did. Like it or not, people paying for music is purely discretionary so if your intention is to make a niche for yourself to provide income, what you do has to appeal enough to someone that they will pay to hear it. Being more versatile such that you might be able to perform in many different sorts of genres might be one track to take but it still requires someone finding that which is marketable and making the sale.

I like Tubajoe's last comment about the evolving nature of our business. I think that is really on target. However, it still requires someone taking a monetary interest in what you do, whether that is a contractor, a recording label, or anyone purchasing a ticket and listening. Any way you slice it, that is where the real test is. How compelling is what you do such that it will elicit a monetary response? I think that is the track we all need to be looking for and we all need to understand that this is a very hard track to find. What combination of musical expertise, public appeal, and sheer marketing will be the ticket? It's the same dilemma facing millions of "popular" musicians every day. Ask Britney Spears or Justin Bieber where they started. That's the game we're speaking about here.

Indeed, it is an exciting time. We have many possible ways to go, any one of which could be a windfall for our craft. As long as we approach things with the intention of staying relevant to the public (whatever segment that may be) I think we'll be okay.

i wonder if jobey wilson is monitoring since he's actually created a career that ranges from Orchestra to Elementary School kids to Sousaphone @ Fenway Park

So, how do we create more opportunities for ourselves? That's the question, right? I've been kicking around in my head this exact subject for quite a while and I'll share a few thoughts I have, from my perspective. There are two things I've learned that will take a young player far. One I learned from my teacher Harvey Phillips. Harvey taught me to recognize an opportunity when I see it. Not only do you have to recognize it, you have to seize it and be prepared, for whatever form it shows up in. This doesn't just apply to music, but to everything in your life. I can think of a few things both musical and non musical where I failed to seize an opportunity. The second is this. I remember finishing up a lesson with Sam Pilafian in Boston in the mid 80's, standing outside Boston University when Sam said to me, "you will only play as well as you hear." Perhaps these two items seem like a no brainer, but to really hear this advice and live it is a whole other thing.

I just began my 21st season with the Oklahoma City Philharmonic, my 27th in professional orchestras. I'm so sad about all these struggling orchestras and people losing jobs and income through no fault of their own. The orchestra before this incarnation of the OKC Phil. went through a horrible period as well and what I enjoy is a restructured orchestra with very few members of the "old orchestra" remaining. I am terribly fortunate to have this job. I get a raise every single year, almost double from where I started in 92. I play in a beautiful hall and I have sat next to two of the nicest men anyone could find. Playing big German Romantic rep. is a fraction of my job. A lot of what we do is pops concerts and I've had the great fortune to play with some amazing people, far too many to list. That rep. requires style, a wide range of style.

So back to the question. Because I play in a part time, night time orchestra, I was able to start my own business with my wife of 27 years in 2004. We are in our ninth year of owning a yoga studio and last month was our best month ever financially. Opportunities don't have to come wrapped in something musical. Owning a business and having a completely different career outside of music has been amazing. I can't begin to tell you how small and limiting playing in an orchestra and teaching music for 22 years has been. You can do both. You can do other things besides music and still be a musician. Because of my schedule, I have plenty of time to practice and grow. If my orchestra fails one day, we'll be fine. If I for some reason can no longer play, I'm fine with that too. What I do is NOT who I am. What you do is not who you are. This turns this thread into a whole other direction that I don't have time right now to write about. I have to go teach yoga!
Ted