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Anybody have any idea of a time frame when the 5th valve moved from the left hand to the right hand, and why? And, was this only an F tuba thing, or does anybody know any examples of CC, Eb, or BBb tubas with left hand valves? I've considered that compensating tubas still do this, but I'm asking a question mostly about rotary "german style" horns.

ArnoldGottlieb wrote:Anybody have any idea of a time frame when the 5th valve moved from the left hand to the right hand, and why? And, was this only an F tuba thing, or does anybody know any examples of CC, Eb, or BBb tubas with left hand valves? I've considered that compensating tubas still do this, but I'm asking a question mostly about rotary "german style" horns.

Miraphone put the fifth-valve trigger on the left hand for years. TubaRay's early 70's 186 CC is that way.

But I think it was when York copies started becoming available. The fifth rotary valve on a piston tuba is customarily operated by the right thumb. When the 4P+1R configuration became popular, the rotary manufacturers followed suit. With a piston arrangement, the fifth rotary is often tucked right next to the pistons instead of over on the left side of the instrument as with a rotary. This makes a linkage to a thumb trigger shorter, it seems to me.

The CSO York's fifth valve is on the right hand. That takes it back to the 1930 range. But that style of instrument didn't become de riguere outside a subset of orchestral players until the Yorkbrunner came out, it seems to me. And then it was a while before the 4P+1R configuration moved down to smaller instruments and broke out of orchestral ranks. That's about when rotary tubas for the U.S. market started operating them on the right thumb. I'm figuring something in the 1980 range for about when the trend became noticeable.

Rick "who used to think it mattered" Denney

I think the shift began in the 1970s, when Rudy Meinls and Hirsbrunners started getting popular. I saw a tuba workshop given by a tubist who is now pretty well-known; he had a 6-valve F tuba set up for four right and two left fingers. He had rigged up a piece of clothsline so he could work the 5th valve with his right thumb because he wanted to keep his left hand free to play with slides.

When I started college( USC,1975) most of the LH 5th valves were being converted to RH/thumb by Larry Minick. I ordered a 186 CC 5V Mirafone in 1976, it came from the factory with a RH/thumb 5th valve. Serial# 10,XXX.
Hope this helps.
Dave Hayami

Late '70 or early '71, I had a lesson with Tommy Johnson and he had just picked up his horn from George Strucel @ Mirafone who had added something new for him........5th valve on the right thumb.

Hi Dave, my experience is similar. My Mirafone 186CC (built in 1974) has the left hand 5th valve. The year after I bought it (1976) another guy in the studio bought a new 186CC and it had the right hand valve with the long link going across the front. I don't remember if you could still operate the valve with the left hand.
So 1975 to 76 sounds like the transition year for that model.

I think the first right hand 5th valve may have been the CSO Yorks, made in the 40's, I believe.

Anybody got an older guess than that?

Alex C wrote:I think the first right hand 5th valve may have been the CSO Yorks, made in the 40's, I believe.

Anybody got an older guess than that?

Alex, the CSO Yorks were made around 1930 or so. Rotary valves on American tubas were more common then than later, and using one for a fifth would not have required digging too deep in the parts bin, I don't suspect. Personally, I'm wondering if it's the first five-valve CC made in America. It's even more likely to be the first with the 4P+1R configuration. But I'm just speculating.

Rick "surprised to hear that Miraphone's right-hand fifth predates the Yorkbrunner" Denney