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All music is in the playing, no?

That Reed tune was a favorite when I played it with the Arizona All-State band back in '70. That group numbered 126 players, FFF was no problem in Gammage hall @ ASU.

Friends in the audience had tears at one point, they said it was so pretty.

We did it last season with our community band, it was just as powerful.

+1

DDG

I was introduced to it in High School. Even though I've only performed it once, It's been my favorite piece for band ever since.

Great piece, but a lot of bands really butcher it:

-- it NEEDS low reed players
-- it NEEDS a string bass player
-- and for goodness sakes, don't get too loud too soon at the end. When that brass chorale starts, that's what adds the volume and depth to the piece. People love to go FF as soon as it starts, then have nowhere left to go, get tired, and then the end of the piece just kind of "happens."

the elephant wrote:Alfred Reed's "Russian Christmas Music" — Greatest work of pure music for band of all time? There is NOTHING weak in this work of music.

Except when there is not a string bass player or good tuba player (or one who knows their limits.)
I have heard the piece butchered several times by tuba players attempting to play the string bass cues, but who can't get even ANY of the notes. A couple of them doing it at the same time is even worse and completely kills it.
Simple - if you are going to play the string bass cues, PRACTICE them. If you can't play the correct notes, and in time, DON'T PLAY THEM. The part is extremely exposed and there is no room for error.

Marty, I couldn't agree more.

I played this piece 2 years in a row with the same group:
-- First year, no string bass. I was asked to play the line once, conductor didn't like it, the performances were done with NO instrument playing the walking bass line (which sounded a bit naked to me).
-- Second year, there was a string bass. The person wasn't very good, and again, the conductor decided that NO instrument should play the walking bass line.

He was a clarinet player, so I think he was just overtaken by the clarinet choir during that section of the piece. I was left to sing the string bass part in my head both years (dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum ....)

the elephant wrote: You never hear orchestra musicians mention instrumentation or difficulty while discussing musical qualities. This is very telling and interesting.

So evidently the discussion moved on from `musical qualities'. Maybe that's what's very telling and interesting: we don't have much to say. It's beautiful ... it's pretty ... powerful ... OK, let's talk about performance issues. You know, there was this time at band camp ...

Your turn. Say more about its musical qualities.

Another work for wind ensemble I was always deeply moved by was Music for Prauge 1968. While not as accessible as the work by Reed, Husa's depiction of that event still haunts me!

Hmmm, I personally don't care for the piece (seems to me to be pieced together rather than fully thought out), but do see its artistic qualities as an arrangement of previously written material (all of the music used in the work is extrapolated from the Russian Orthodox Church Liturgy). For "pure" band music, my vote would go to Peter Mennin's "Canzona", Holst's "Hammersmith" or Vaughn-Williams' "Tocatta Marziale".

As a side bar, I teach orchestra and this year have been added to the Band Faculty along with those duties. I have been listening to music written for band from the last 20 years and have yet to find a piece that has artistic merit AND audience appeal. Seems like things are being written for a small circle of cognizenti or is a fomulamatic pap designed to to garner the best rating at festival, and nothing else.

Chuck

the elephant wrote:Chuck: My point in a nutshell. Thank you.

Additionally, you used this thread correctly by discussing musical aspects rather than lame contest considerations or whether it is good based on having to play it. I am speaking about the music itself and not how many notes it has or that it uses instruments that not all bands have. We seem to have lost our way in that regard, here. I read lots of stuff "rating" a piece based on how fun it is to play. How sad and shallow. I have fun playing whole notes at mf if what is going on around me is of worth. A busy part in a lame piece is a lame busy part and holds zero interest to me.

Wade,
No disrespect was ever intended. It is without doubt a great piece of music, both for playing and listening. However, the instrumentation does tend to create specific issues that can be detrimental to the performance, specifically related to tuba.

RCM is a great choice.

Better: La Fiesta Mexicana.

I'll go the grave defending that choice.

I have not played the band version. I have played the orchestra version several times for Christmas POPS concerts. It truly is a beautiful work. The typical audince reaction is: " When I saw this in the program I was skeptical; but when I heard it I was very moved".

the elephant wrote:When talking about the musical merits of a piece by Mozart, you never hear people discuss its merits as a work of art while giving any thought to these things. "Oh, I love the Presto from that string Divertimento! But you need a good viola section." That is another discussion entirely. Why did you bother to comment at all, Donn? You have contributed nothing here. You posted solely to troll for a response and not to discuss. Good job.

Yeah, I'm trolling for a response! I want to see some interesting discussion of musical qualities, because even though I've never heard the piece I can imagine that there's something to be gained by reading about what makes a piece good.

While performance issues is not that discussion, neither is this "band musicians are lame, because they talk about performance issues" discussion, and I thought perhaps we could put that to rest by pointing out that the musical qualities discussion had kind of dried up after everyone had more or less agreed that the piece in question was good. Which certainly has to be barely scratching the surface of its musical qualities.

I guess I may have been barking up the wrong tree, though - about 7 posts in, when you informed us about the terms of the discussion, you used the expression "qualities of a BAND piece", which to me suggests digging significantly deeper than good/bad. But now we're talking about "musical merits", where I suppose we can leave it at good/bad if that's what you want.

Hopefully as arbiter of this discussion you'll let us know if our contributions are worthy. I cheerfully confess that mine is not, but if this has to be a distracting side-discussion, let it be about how or even whether it's possible to talk about good music. If that isn't even an interesting question, then just let me go quietly.

bloke wrote:
It takes some hosses to pull it off, though. I've heard an astonishing "President's Own" recording.

Perhaps, this one on youtube (and I'm not going to listen to it right now) is the one that I've heard...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G79475mx ... sults_main

I think this is the same recording we made a couple of years back. Can that video be legal? Kinda cool.

Playing that piece never gets old. However you must have low woodwind players with some stones to really pull it off. A slightly tipsy trombone section helps too.

I played RCM in college but have never played it in the USMB. Sure would like to try.

Here's a question: name Claude T. Smith's greatest band masterpiece. The answer is not opinion, it's scientific fact.

Hint: it's grade IV.

DP wrote:

Highpitch wrote:I played it with the Arizona All-State band back in '70. That group numbered 126 players, FFF was no problem in Gammage hall @ ASU.

ANY group can play fff

Whats a challenge is playing pp, and this is one challenging piece in that respect for any (even large) ensemble

A very wise conductor played for said: "Good bands can play loud, but great bands play soft."

La Fiesta is indeed a monster, but I never thought it made the audience emote.

I spent years in Mexico, that tune never took me back there.

The first movement just makes me nervous.

Night on Bald Mountain gets riveted attention every time it is played.

Dunno, maybe I'm just a shill for Russki-style composers...


DDG

PMeuph wrote:

DP wrote:

Highpitch wrote:I played it with the Arizona All-State band back in '70. That group numbered 126 players, FFF was no problem in Gammage hall @ ASU.

ANY group can play fff

Whats a challenge is playing pp, and this is one challenging piece in that respect for any (even large) ensemble

A very wise conductor played for said: "Good bands can play loud, but great bands play soft."

Aw, you missed the mark...that band had enough control to pull off the dynamics just fine. You could hear audience heartbeats during parts of it. The powerhouse finale was easily done, without any strain. A good analogy is cars with engines bigger than needed never work hard.

Harry Begian from MSU was the conductor, and he didn't cut us any slack in any department.

DDG

I love Alfred Reed's "Russian Christmas Music". Our band has played it a several times and I always notice the audience a bit restless at first, then very pensive. If we do a good job they're very appreciative and show it.

cktuba wrote:

Cameron Gates wrote:RCM is a great choice.

Better: La Fiesta Mexicana.

I'll go the grave defending that choice.

I'll second that choice and raise you a George Washington Bridge.

Great piece with a lot of color, however it is shorter and more of a one trick pony IMHO than the Reeds.

Copeland's band work "Emblems" should also get a mention in this thread. Hard as hades, but great to hear and fun to play.

the elephant wrote:

Cameron Gates wrote:Here's a question: name Claude T. Smith's greatest band masterpiece.

He wrote and arranged many very good pieces of music. But, for me personally, "God of Our Fathers" is his best.

Good piece, but wrong.

The answer is Emperata Overture. I still hum that tune everystinkinday.

Oh man!!! I totally forgot about this piece! I play that little tuba solo lick all the time when I warm up!