TubeNet

Hello,

A quick introduction first: My name's Guy, I'm from the the South East of England and - compared to everyone here - I'm a very inexperienced tuba player

When I was at school I learnt on an Eb tuba that was rented from the music school. When I left school, I lost the use of that instrument. A relative very kindly bought me a B&H Imperial BBb (serial: 673901) but, because I don't play often I never got to grips with the different fingering. The tuba now has so little use that I'd like to get rid of it but ideally I'd like to get an Eb (tuba or sousaphone) to replace it. Without spending extra money.

So my question is: what's a B&H Imperial BBb worth and what Eb could I buy with the proceeds?

I'm not a good tuba player, I'm very out of practice, so I don't need anything special - but I still think of myself as a tuba player and I'd feel quite incomplete if I didn't own one.

UK eBay has loads of Eb tubas for sale ... Sell your Bb and get an Eb, if that's what you want ...

Yup. Sell the BBb and get a nice clone 981, imperial, monster eb, or little eb (the little vintage front action Conn's are fun and in tune!)

Contact Mark Carter, a/k/a "Mr. Tuba." Even though he is in Wales, he can fix you up. Otherwise, somewhere like Normans, or Parkers, or any good local shop can help you out.

Aren't the Eb and BBb tuba parts transposed in the UK? I would think it's more of a 'chops' issue than a fingering issue.

Only in brass bands and sometimes in wind bands ... in my experience.

TubaTinker wrote:Aren't the Eb and BBb tuba parts transposed in the UK? I would think it's more of a 'chops' issue than a fingering issue.

The convention for treble clef transposed notation for valved British brass band instruments is similar to the treble clef transposed notation for USA concert band trumpet, french horn and treble clef baritone/euphonium: the open 2nd partial is notated as "middle c," (one ledger line below the treble clef), and everything else is notated accordingly.

It's not just an embouchure issue. It's also a fingering issue, since Eb and BBb basses play different parts. Unless you can transpose on sight or use the "mentally add three flats and change accidentals accordingly" convention to read an Eb tuba brass band part as if it were bass clef on a BBb tuba part, it is a completely different ballgame.

iiipopes wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:Aren't the Eb and BBb tuba parts transposed in the UK? I would think it's more of a 'chops' issue than a fingering issue.

The convention for treble clef transposed notation for valved British brass band instruments is similar to the treble clef transposed notation for USA concert band trumpet, french horn and treble clef baritone/euphonium: the open 2nd partial is notated as "middle c," (one ledger line below the treble clef), and everything else is notated accordingly.

It's not just an embouchure issue. It's also a fingering issue, since Eb and BBb basses play different parts. Unless you can transpose on sight or use the "mentally add three flats and change accidentals accordingly" convention to read an Eb tuba brass band part as if it were bass clef on a BBb tuba part, it is a completely different ballgame.

Well.... it's no wonder I made so many strange noises when I played a bit in brass bands while I was stationed in Scotland back in the 60's. I thought it was the alcohol!

iiipopes wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:Aren't the Eb and BBb tuba parts transposed in the UK? I would think it's more of a 'chops' issue than a fingering issue.

The convention for treble clef transposed notation for valved British brass band instruments is similar to the treble clef transposed notation for USA concert band trumpet, french horn and treble clef baritone/euphonium: the open 2nd partial is notated as "middle c," (one ledger line below the treble clef), and everything else is notated accordingly.

It's not just an embouchure issue. It's also a fingering issue, since Eb and BBb basses play different parts. Unless you can transpose on sight or use the "mentally add three flats and change accidentals accordingly" convention to read an Eb tuba brass band part as if it were bass clef on a BBb tuba part, it is a completely different ballgame.

The fingers are the same, the pitch is different. The fingers should not the problem. It IS like US trumpets (or BB cornets/trumpets). Same pitch written, different sound comes out. The fingerings for ALL the BB instruments, written as such, are the same, from top to bottom. Aside from the trombones (and bass bone is in BC).

I'm not sure what you were meaning there, triplet.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll let you know how I get on.

On the notation question - I learnt to play in concert pitch on the bass clef: what was written is what I played.

As iiipopes said, British brass band music for the Eb tuba is written in treble clef where a noted middle C actually produces an Eb 1 leger line below the bass clef stave. Because treble clef C and bass clef E are sort of physically in the same place all you have to do is:

"mentally add three flats and change accidentals accordingly"

I'm sure there are many here who can mentally adjust to the key of the instrument they're playing but I'm not one of them!

eupher61 wrote:I'm not sure what you were meaning there, triplet.

It's not the fingerings. Yes, any valved British-style transposed treble clef part will read "middle c" as open fingers. The deal is getting the correct pitch alignment between an Eb part and a BBb part, since they both read their respective parts in transposed treble clef as "middle c - open valves," but the pitch is a major 4th different.

Here's the deal. In the USA, it's used mostly by Eb baritone sax players (and to a lesser extent, Eb contra clarinet players) in reverse when there is no bari sax part available: take any standard USA concert band bass clef concert pitch tuba part. Eb is one ledger line below the staff. Take any standard USA concert band bari sax part. Their written middle c, fingered all six fingers and the lower right pinky paddle, is one ledger line below the staff, but the actual pitch is that same concert pitch Eb, one ledger line below the bass clef, as in the concert pitch tuba part. So bari sax players take the tuba part, mentally change the clef to treble, add three sharps to the key signature, adjust the accidentals accordingly, and play on.

Inversely, to get from a British brass band Eb transposed treble clef notation tuba part back to concert band bass clef concert pitch notation, you do the opposite: mentally change from treble clef to bass clef, add three flats, and adjust accidentals accordingly, so that the notated middle c note, which sounds the same pitch as concert Eb one ledger line below the bass clef, is in the correct alignment on the staff, and it doesn't matter whether the tuba playing the bass clef concert pitch notation part is BBb, C, Eb or F, because American concert band tuba players are taught to read the pitch and adjust fingers accordingly to the instrument.