The two shoulder solution?

[Donn]

This probably varies from one player to the next, but all I have to do is wad a jacket or something over my right shoulder and under the bow of the sousaphone behind my back, and voilá, supported on left and right shoulders. Not that I've ever done it until this afternoon. That could evolve into a sling, buckled around the sousaphone bow, which you'd have to fish out over your shoulder and hook up somewhere in the front.

[aqualung]

The only people who complain about or belittle marching with a wind instrument are people who never bothered to learn correct marching technique. A smooth glide or roll step eliminates all bouncing. Learn to march while holding a full glass of water - don't spill any. The movement is like a waitress schlepping a full tray of expensive dinners. Or a beauty pageant contestant.

If you have to march Big Ten style, I feel for ya.

[jacobg]

As far as I can tell, the "one shoulder" thing came from a design for the saxtuba by Adolph Sax, for instruments that were based on Roman horns. But these (cornu?) were much smaller than a sousaphone, probably like the size of a hunting horn.

You would think that Sax must have experimented with all different shapes - it seems like he was a pretty exhaustive experimenter. Someone must have made an "apron" style horn, no? or a "jetpack" style?

Why is it on one shoulder? Is it easier to manufacture something in a circle than an irregular shape? Is it because it is (somewhat) universal, able to fit many different body types?

The tuba, especially the BBb, has a lot of tubing to work with. As the segway sousaphone or the king pit tuba demonstrate, it can be molded to nearly any shape. It is also unique among most large wind instruments because the player doesn't need to have access to the entire instrument - just the valves. Thus the bari sax or contrabass clarinet must be in front of the player, where they can reach keys that cover holes on the largest part of the body, but the tuba doesn't need to be. The valves almost can function like a remote control for the rest of the body, which could be really anywhere.

[eupher61]

The helicon was patented in 1849, in Bavaria. That's the same year of Sax's patents for his brass instruments, from what I can tell.

[David Richoux]

As far as I can tell, the "one shoulder" thing came from a design for the saxtuba by Adolph Sax, for instruments that were based on Roman horns. But these (cornu?) were much smaller than a sousaphone, probably like the size of a hunting horn.

You would think that Sax must have experimented with all different shapes - it seems like he was a pretty exhaustive experimenter. Someone must have made an "apron" style horn, no? or a "jetpack" style?

Why is it on one shoulder? Is it easier to manufacture something in a circle than an irregular shape? Is it because it is (somewhat) universal, able to fit many different body types?

The tuba, especially the BBb, has a lot of tubing to work with. As the segway sousaphone or the king pit tuba demonstrate, it can be molded to nearly any shape. It is also unique among most large wind instruments because the player doesn't need to have access to the entire instrument - just the valves. Thus the bari sax or contrabass clarinet must be in front of the player, where they can reach keys that cover holes on the largest part of the body, but the tuba doesn't need to be. The valves almost can function like a remote control for the rest of the body, which could be really anywhere.

1. There are illustrations of very large Cornu (Corni?) but they would be relatively light with no valves or extra pipes.

2. Sax did come up with a lot of odd configurations - that 6 or 7 bell thing was interesting to look at! Heavy, complicated and not significantly better than what has become the standard designs.

3. The two shoulder question is what we are investigating. Simple shapes are much easier to make for many different reasons - tools to shape flats, tapers and regular curves (in brass or any other material) are going to be much cheaper to make and use. Complicated shapes lead to more errors and fit problems. I can see long linkages or wire control valves for a "jet-pack tuba" shape - way extra complicated!

4. Don't forget the need to access water keys, tuning slides, etc. and also complications in getting the instrument in and out of playing position, storage, assembly, balance and fragility of the more unusual shaped horns. The Sousaphone shape has proven to be a good compromise in tuba design - it can be used in 2 (or three) different configurations (with a side stand,) packs into a relatively small case (for the size of the horn) and it does balance well for most people if the bell is properly set.

[jacobg]

The jetpack idea - I wasn't thinking wires or linkages. I was thinking standard tuba body on your back with backpack straps, standard valveset in front of your chest, standard sousaphone neck and bits, and connected along the side of your torso by tubing that goes to the larger bows.

With a detachable valveset, and detachable connecting tubing, the whole thing would fit in a standard case.

Not so hard to make, is it? If a sousaphone already costs $4000 new, and a pro tuba easily much more than that, could it not be made to a different shape? It's still mechanically less complex than a baritone sax.

This describes a helicon shoulder rest. I can't make out if it is intended for one or both shoulders, but if for both, it would be a confirmation that I am not the first to think this might be a solvable problem.

http://sousacentral.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... ke-it.html" target="_blank

[J.c. Sherman]

Doesn't anyone (from age 12 - age 82) who signs up to march with any sort of tuba (mostly) deserve what they get?

Hell no. Some of us hate(d) marching band, and in order to get any credit, other playing opportunities or the band directors ^%#$ing signature on anything, we had to march. I loathed it and loathed him for it. What a complete waste of time with no musical benefits and a hell of a lot of cold and noise and mud and aching shoulders.

YM might V

[pjv]

Never let others tell you what you should think or dream. Without far out ideas we'd all probably be playing the recorder.

There are some very real obstacles in your design which others here have already highlighted, one of them being strength in design. We've seen tubas with removable valve sets, so we know it possible to have these two parts (1.the valves 2.the the rest all the way up to the bell). The weak part is the tubing between the valve section and the bell section.

Costs. Don't underestimate this one. The larger tuba playing community, together with instrument techs are fortunately willing to invest their time and money to slowly but surely improve the tuba designs. This is expensive, time consuming and a gamble. Tuba designs vary greatly and our tubas come in probably more shapes and sizes than any other brass instrument. Its large so it costs more to build. Its conical so second guessing the results of any design change can be very difficult to impossible. And there are less tuba players than there are trumpet, trombone and horn players = less investors.

Air. By carrying an instrument you restrict your air. I've tried the extra sousaphone strap before. Instead of restricting lung expansion above one shoulder it was restricted above both shoulders. By the way, the tuba pouch works great. Very comfortable, more so than most straps. For me the disadvantage is the same; air constriction. And when it comes to choosing between having my shoulder and back expansion restricted by straps and my chest and stomach expansion restricted by the tuba itself, I'll go for a sousaphone any day.

And now for some fun; I've often heard many people say that the larger cimbassi sound like tubas on a stick. So, by a really large cimbasso and get a longer stick.

Problem solved.

-Pat

[ralphbsz]

(This post is meant as humor, not as a serious contribution to the discussion of how to march with tubas)

One of the predecessors of the tuba is the Swiss alphorn: A wooden, conical instrument, about 10 or 12 feet long. Today, it can be had with 3-valve setups (I think Miraphone or Meinl make the valve kit).

Marching with an alphorn would be easy. Just attach two wheels to the front, and push it (preferably not with your lips). There are no problems with havingn the weight on your shoulders. In case your band has to go in anything but a straight line, it would be easy to add steering to the front wheels.

I can just see it: A 6-valve rotary F alphorn, with a slide kicker on a seventh paddle, and the eighth paddle for front wheel steering. If someone is good with photochop, we could even get a picture of that.

I'll put my serious question into a different thread.

[jacobg]

Revisiting this to note that while I was posting these daydreams back in 2012, these guys were actually making the thing. It seems that I was not the only one with an aching sousaphone shoulder.

Yes I know there have been subsequent posts about this instrument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl-d1OMikho" target="_blank

[MaryAnn]

Not surprised at the responses here. What I have to say: I love an open mind, a myth-busting mindset, one that doesn't automatically say "we've always done it this way, so that must be good enough, just get used to it."

What would be most cool would be someone with your mind (OP) and a high level of skill to just have at it. A tuba that rode like a backpack, belt around the waist taking the weight, could be used anywhere as long as one used a stool and wasn't forced to use a chair with a back. You've got my vote for inventiveness and not having a head full of clay.

[Ltrain]

Google/YouTube IUP Marching Band. The tubas have been using an effective two shoulder solution for decades.

From my two years marching in that band I don’t ever recall my shoulders hurting (ergonomic drum-style harnesses), but my lower back was a different story! Core strength!

[Three Valves]

Doesn't anyone (from age 12 - age 82) who signs up to march with any sort of tuba (mostly) deserve what they get?

This entire exercise is like playing football in Buffalo in December and complaining about the snow!!