TubeNet

This inquiry was sparked by a friend citing an orchestral performance on YouTube in which the tubist appears to be playing a 6/4 Rudolf Meinl BBb horn. The camera angle prevents 100% assurance that this is accurate, but it certainly is a huge horn (watch at 24:52)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVKHZZyQ3P0

The Rudolf Meinl 6/4 BBb is arguably the largest "production model" concert tuba built today.

Don Harry and Matt Good (and Gene Pokorny?) have borrowed privately owned 6/4 Rudolf Meinl BBbs for specific performances with their respective orchestras (mostly, and not surprisingly, Prokofiev). Stefan Tischler reportedly has played this horn in the Bavarian Radio Symphony (how often? Does he own the horn [FWIW, he's an MW/Melton Artist])?

The two people who I know personally who actually own one of these beasts also own smaller 6/4 horns with which they perform as much or more frequently than the RM 6/4 BBb.

Who does play a Rudolf Meinl 6/4 BBb on occasion in orchestra or other ensembles?

Is this, indeed, a practical horn for anything but the absolute biggest orchestral or band/wind ensemble pieces? Does anyone rely upon the 6/4 Rudolf Meinl as their primary contrabass tuba?

I've played one in performance, and although it is a very wonderful instrument, over 99.9% of human tuba players do not need an instrument that is 25% larger than a 6/4 York. Practical uses would include, hmm, the annual Bayreuth Wagner Festival, and possibly in a large, powerful orchestra or band.

Having schlepped it to- and from the Atlanta Civic Center in a hard case the size of a subcompact car, and up and down stairs, and going through security checkpoints, "practical" was not one of the words that was coming to mind at that time. Using a Rudi 6/4 BB tuba as your daily player would be like driving a Mercedes luxury tour bus as your daily driver. It could be done, but a 4/4 or 5/4 would be a much more practical solution for most of us.

Checking out the U-Tube video, I do believe that the tubist is Manfred Hoppert, who is the only player I know of that has owned and played a Rudi 6/4 for an extended period of time. My understanding is that his playing in Munich is legendary.

I rather think that spending a lot of time on the RM 6/4 would be necessary to really feel comfortable playing it.

As many will know for about 5 years I used to play a Neptune as my main horn and had no problems controlling, but for the last year have been playing a Wessex 4/4 CC and when this last week I decided to give the Neptune an airing (at wind band rehearsal) I was amazed how difficult I found it to control the much larger tuba. Enough that the euphonium player turned around to enquire if anything was wrong as I obviously did not sound as in control as usual.

When you think Sousa's band had multiple Jumbo raincatcher sousaphone, I would have thought the RM 6/4 would provide great foundation for large wind band, but would think its applications in orchestra very limited, at least unless the player is really comprehensively in control and knows how to turn the volume down.

Neptune wrote:As many will know for about 5 years I used to play a Neptune as my main horn and had no problems controlling, but for the last year have been playing a Wessex 4/4 CC...

I have to say Jonathan, I was pretty surprised to read this! I mean this completely respectfully, but is this a marketing decision on your part, or more of a "best tool for the job" decision?

That Neptune you had custom made is just a complete of a tuba. I can't picture it sitting unused (at least not publicly?) for almost a year!

(Sorry if this is out of place, I realize it's not really any of my business. )

bort wrote:I have to say Jonathan, I was pretty surprised to read this! I mean this completely respectfully, but is this a marketing decision on your part, or more of a "best tool for the job" decision?

It was initially a matter of thoroughly testing what I sell to have confidence they really are good for the job - not just for one week, but over lengthy period of time.

I do love the Neptune, but to be honest most conductors seem to prefer me using smaller CC, or EEb. I remember the first time I took Wessex 4/4 CC to orchestral rehearsal - half way through the rehearsal the conductor said to me across the orchestra, "now that tuba sounds good - please can you use for the concert." I was rather taken aback that he should prefer me to use tuba costing 1/10 the price

Just looking at the gentleman playing the horn, how he holds it, and the specs from the RM website, I'm thinking this guy HAS to be AT LEAST 6'6" tall. And he isn't using a stand, and seems to be holding it OFF THE CHAIR. Holy crap, that's super-human. He is a true monster, in every sense of the word. What a glorious sound he gets out of that instrument. I have to go to a chiropractor just watching that guy play, much less even trying to do it myself. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chuck"WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"Jackson

Neptune wrote:I was rather taken aback that he should prefer me to use tuba costing 1/10 the price

Why? Who cares what you play as long as it gets the desired result. It's never the horn.

Chuck"who hates horn snobbery"Jackson

Chuck Jackson wrote:

Neptune wrote:I was rather taken aback that he should prefer me to use tuba costing 1/10 the price

Why? Who cares what you play as long as it gets the desired result. It's never the horn.

Chuck"who hates horn snobbery"Jackson

You are of course entirely correct sir

Neptune wrote:I do love the Neptune, but to be honest most conductors seem to prefer me using smaller CC, or EEb. I remember the first time I took Wessex 4/4 CC to orchestral rehearsal - half way through the rehearsal the conductor said to me across the orchestra, "now that tuba sounds good - please can you use for the concert." I was rather taken aback that he should prefer me to use tuba costing 1/10 the price

I hope you all won't mind a few comments from a bass trombone player...in orchestras, I have almost always preferred to sit next to tuba players who play with the more focused sound one usually gets with a slightly smaller CC tuba.

That said, here in Boston where I live, the trend among young orchestral tuba players is to follow Mike Roylance's lead with a Nirschl 6/4 as the large orchestral tuba, paired with a Laskey 30H, which as large tubas go, tends to be much more colorful, focused, and easy for me to blend with than the older trend of heavier 6/4 CCs like the Yorkbrunner and pre-Baer/pre-Thor Meinl Weston models.

It still takes a lot of focus behind the horn to make those types of horns sing, which is really the point - every player needs to figure out the balance of what you are physically capable of and what is the right size for the ensembles and halls where you spend your time. Ultimately it's about the player doing the work and making smart decisions about approach and equipment.

One of my most valued colleagues now prefers rotary tubas, and plays either a 3/4 Rudy CC, a 5/4 Rudy CC, or an older B&S F, depending on the situation. I wish more players did things like that, honestly, rather than try to make everything work on a 6/4CC and an F tuba of some kind.

My final thought: I honestly think most young tuba players would be much better served by playing 4/4 or manageable 5/4 CC tubas as their primary instruments throughout their school years, and taking auditions on those same instruments - with which they can show what good musicians they are, not just how big a sound they can make. The argument can certainly be made that, if you want to compete for the jobs where a big tuba is deemed necessary, you have to take a big tuba to the audition...but there are also notable examples of players who have succeeded otherwise, like Carol Jantsch.

Neptune wrote:It was initially a matter of thoroughly testing what I sell to have confidence they really are good for the job - not just for one week, but over lengthy period of time.

I do love the Neptune, but to be honest most conductors seem to prefer me using smaller CC, or EEb. I remember the first time I took Wessex 4/4 CC to orchestral rehearsal - half way through the rehearsal the conductor said to me across the orchestra, "now that tuba sounds good - please can you use for the concert." I was rather taken aback that he should prefer me to use tuba costing 1/10 the price

Makes sense to me, although for your sake, I wish your conductor would have simply said "that sounds good." I guess you won't soon be able to bring the Neptune and claim it was all you had available!