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Change from Besson BBb??

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:27 pm
by royjohn
I haven't spent much time playing tuba lately, preferring to beat my brains out doing things like playing piccolo trumpet. Part of the reason for the switch was discovering, after surgery to repair a very large rip in my diaphragm (probably caused by foolhardy weightlifting), that I'd lost about 10% to 20% of my breathing capacity. Some folks I have discussed this with think that my 1975 Besson 3+1BBb tuba is a "breath sucker" and that I'd be better off with a different horn.

While tuba isn't currently my primary instrument, I'd consider playing again if it were a little easier. If I got beyond the confines of my living room, it would probably be to play in a community band. So I'm wondering what folks here would recommend in change of horn or mpc or technique. (And, yes, I do know about "The Breathing Gym".)

If I changed horns, I'd sell the Besson and likely replace it with one of the good Chinese horns. I could also go with an old dead beater, as I am able to get the valves rebuilt very cheaply.

Re: Change from Besson BBb??

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:13 am
by Ken Herrick
I believe the Olds would be the same as the Conn 5J which, in my experience would be as Brian just explained. I would agree with the recommendation.

In past year had 2 sets of valves done by Anderson's at about the$100 per valve cost and feel it was money VERY well spent.

Re: Change from Besson BBb??

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:54 am
by PMeuph
My suggestion is pretty much the same as goodgigs'. I believe you need to find a tuba with a smaller bore size. If I'm not mistaken, the Besson is a .734 bore. The olds/conn tubas have a .656 bore size. Something in the range of the latter might be a could compromise. You could try to find a Conn 12j/ 5j or an Olds O99. You might also get lucky with a Yamaha YBB-105 (Or other versions of the Yamaha 102, 103, 104). These horns might take a while to learn to play beautifully as they might sound forced if they're played like you played on the besson. You can find any of the models I mentioned for under $1000 used, if you're lucky. They are usually pretty easy to resell if you want to upgrade later on.

Here's one worth looking at.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=52750" target="_blank" target="_blank

Re: Change from Besson BBb??

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:16 am
by iiipopes
I disagree. Bore has very little to do with required breath support. Once the breath clears the throat of the mouthpiece and the receiver, the leadpipe tapers enough that the effect on the breath is more like what happens at a river delta emptying into the ocean: velocity drops to near zero.

What is important is the mouthpiece throat and backbore, and receiver/upper leadpipe expansion, which has more to do with how much air a tuba will subjectively take to feel like there is enough resistance to manage breath. For example, my old 186 has a smaller leadpipe diameter close to the receiver than a new 186, and "takes less air" accordingly. Yes, I've played both.

Now, if like on a Besson, the leadpipe is so short that the valve block is still effectively part of the expansion, that may have somewhat of a bearing. Also, the placement of the braces in relation to the nodes and antinodes affects how an instrument resonates, and therefore how "open" or "stuffy" the horn plays.

The main problem with a Besson is the Wick 1 or 1L mouthpiece (depending on which receiver the tuba has, in this case probably a 1L) is a deep funnel into a wide throat and open backbore, which take more air than three lungs can give, much less two.

Try this instead before purchasing a new tuba: purchase or borrow a Kelly 18 to try on this tuba. It has a smaller throat and backbore, but still deep enough to give a good tone, and rounded cup to promote a little resistance. See if the increased resistance from the rounded cup and smaller throat make the tuba easier to play. If not, you can always return the mouthpiece if the store has a return policy. I mention a Kelly 18 because it is inexpensive, you will use it eventually, anyway if you play any outdoor concerts, and it sounded great on the Besson 3-valve comp I used to own. It's a lot cheaper and logistically simpler than trying to sell a current tuba and purchase a new one.