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Does anyone know the whereabouts of the Martin CC that Bill Bell is playing is this picture?

That was L.B. Oliver's horn. He might have an idea.
mike

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I've heard back via email from a couple of experts in the field of tubas. The tuba Bill Bell is playing is thought to be a Sander tuba.... which is thought to be the origin of the 'slant-rotor' concept. I am in touch with L B Oliver but haven't heard back from him.

Can anyone put names on the picture and what kind of tubas they are playing?

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The shape of the bell and bows look exactly like my Martin Renowned(medium).
Martin did offer rotary valve instruments, perhaps the valves were ordered from Sanders? Also, John Moore, a San Francisco Trad Jazz player, had a Martin Medium CC with 3 valves and a recording bell, so I think it's very possible that Martin made a few one off CC tubas. Hope that beauty is rediscovered!

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I believe it was factory original CC. He said he bought it decades before out of a store window in downtown SF. It certainly didn't look cut.

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I was told that this photo shows a rotary Martin CC, played by Jay McAllister. I don't recall where this photo came from but thought I'd share it since the topic came up. Back in the 'teens, Martin offered every valved brass instrument in either piston or rotary valves.

Kilte,

I'm taking a wild stab at the BART on the back row based on a faded memory of having seen this picture with the person identified years ago.

I think the person is Jay McAllister and the tuba is a Martin rotary valve CC. Jay played tuba for the the Chamber Brass Ensemble which was the quintet for the first Music Minus One recordings. He was a freelance player in NYC and, again faded memory, I think he moved to Puerto Rico to teach public school band. A fine musician.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I spoke with LB Oliver this evening. The horn Bill Bell is playing WAS LB's horn. LB said the bell was engraved 'Martin'. There is some discussion that the horn could have been a Sander.

Here's a 'twist'... LB mentioned that the bell rim looked as if the bell had been cut and rerolled around the rim wire by hand. I'm thinking there might be a good story here.... like maybe the valve section and top & bottom bow could have been Sander and the bell came from a Martin. LB said he sold that horn to Ivan Hammond maybe 10-12 years ago.

About the tall horn at the right in the back row... The only horn I've ever seen with a detachable 'stovepipe' bell was on a Reynolds 'contempora'... like the one shown below with a small Reynolds.

Kind of a crazy looking leadpipe loop on that Martin CC!

TubaTinker wrote: Ivan Hamlin (sp?)

Ivan Hammond maybe?

UncleBeer wrote:

TubaTinker wrote: Ivan Hamlin (sp?)

Ivan Hammond maybe?

Yes. (Sorry about the poor spelling, Ivan!). I've since learned (from an email forwarded by Don Harry from Ivan) that Ivan did in fact own that horn for a while and sold it to a student in Ypsilanti.

(edit)... LB sold the horn to Sam Gnagey and bought it back some time later. Maybe when LB catches up with this post, he'll furnish a timeline on the horn.

OK... a 'sequel'....

I just got off the phone with LB. He will take a look at this thread in the next day or so. In the meantime... here is some fresh information:

On the back row:
- Pete Sexauer if playing a euphonium.
- the 'unknown' player to LB's right is probably playing a King.
- LB is playing a Conn three-valved Eb.
- Fred Marzan is playing a Besson four-valved Eb.
- the 'unknown' player on the right end is playing ??

On the front row:
- Bell Bell is playing LB's horn... which was a Martin according to LB.
- Jerry Lackey is playing a ??
- Richard Council is playing a ??
- James Linn is playing a ??

It was suggested that one of the unknown payers name was 'Winston' but according to LB... he wasn't at IU yet.

LB... you'll have to fill in the blanks. Curious minds need to know!

tuben wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:On the front row:
- Richard Council is playing a ??

Sure looks like an Alex 163 CC to me.

You should know! I think LB did mention that to me earlier today but I just wasn't quick enough with a pencil to make a note of it.

I've often wondered if Fred Marzan got "his " idea of a slanted rotor from this horn.

kingconn wrote:I've often wondered if Fred Marzan got "his " idea of a slanted rotor from this horn.

The 'slant-rotor' concept was already on the table when Fred Marzan entered the room. I'm pretty sure the only thing he added was the main tuning slide 'on the top'.