Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
-
- bugler
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:45 pm
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
The album cover posted by Paul shows Jay McAllister with his rotary valve Martin CC. It has a great sound, but the horn serves as a testament to Jay's skills as a player. It has an early "vented valve," a spit valve on the upwardly-extending first valve slide. The valves on the horn are incredibly leaky now--so Jay played it a lot.
Jay sounds pretty good on the album.
Mike
Jay sounds pretty good on the album.
Mike
-
- 4 valves
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:27 pm
- Location: New Jersey, USA
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
Scroll Down to see a detachable bell Alex Kaiser BBb for sale at Best music;
Looks like the BART in the back row.
http://www.bestmusicco.com/home/index.p ... &Itemid=28" target="_blank
Looks like the BART in the back row.
http://www.bestmusicco.com/home/index.p ... &Itemid=28" target="_blank
Frank Ortega
Band Director
Saddle Brook MS/HS
The Bloomfield Civic Band
Music Director/Conductor
Bon Temps Brass
Band Director
Saddle Brook MS/HS
The Bloomfield Civic Band
Music Director/Conductor
Bon Temps Brass
- Dan Schultz
- TubaTinker
- Posts: 10424
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Newburgh, Indiana
- Contact:
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
Nice. I've not seen one of those. Thanks for posting. Could be the horn in the 'back row'. I'm waiting for LB to get his computer turned on and tuned in so he can start posting here!Frank Ortega wrote:Scroll Down to see a detachable bell Alex Kaiser BBb for sale at Best music;
Looks like the BART in the back row.
http://www.bestmusicco.com/home/index.p ... &Itemid=28" target="_blank" target="_blank
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
-
- 4 valves
- Posts: 982
- Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:22 pm
- Location: Ft Thomas, KY
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
Robert, I strongly suspect that the Besson Fred Marzan is holding is the Besson you bought from his estate.
Gnagey CC, VMI Neptune 4098 CC, Mirafone 184-5U CC and 56 Bb, Besson 983 EEb and euphonium, King marching baritone, Alexander 163 BBb, Conn 71H/112H bass trombone, Olds Recording tenor trombone.
- bisontuba
- 6 valves
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:55 am
- Location: Bottom of Lake Erie
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
Maybe in Austin, Texas?
- bort
- 6 valves
- Posts: 11223
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:08 pm
- Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
In which case, again, "the trail ends there."bisontuba wrote:Maybe in Austin, Texas?
-
- bugler
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:45 pm
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
If it's in Austin, I don't know about it...
- bisontuba
- 6 valves
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:55 am
- Location: Bottom of Lake Erie
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
Then......I don't knowMikelynch wrote:If it's in Austin, I don't know about it...
- cjk
- 5 valves
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:16 pm
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
This rotary Martin really looks like a large Martin Eb body with enough extra tubing (loooong leadpipe)d to drop the pitch to CC. The funky valve section looks odd.TubaTinker wrote:Does anyone know the whereabouts of the Martin CC that Bill Bell is playing is this picture?
- Alex C
- pro musician
- Posts: 2225
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:34 am
- Location: Cybertexas
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
James Linn's rotary valve King in the picture has an interesting history. I have the story second hand, Bell told him the King tubas need to have 4 inches taken off the bell, meaning 4 inches off of the diameter. Linn's repairman took 4 inches off of the bell at the tenon. You'll notice in the picture how short the bell appears.
Like I said, second hand.
Like I said, second hand.
City Intonation Inspector - Dallas Texas
"Holding the Bordognian Fabric of the Universe together through better pitch, one note at a time."
Practicing results in increased atmospheric CO2 thus causing global warming.
"Holding the Bordognian Fabric of the Universe together through better pitch, one note at a time."
Practicing results in increased atmospheric CO2 thus causing global warming.
-
- 4 valves
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:50 am
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
It has been speculated that the unknown player with the unknown tuba in the far upper right of the photo was playing an Alex 164 kaiser, but I'm not convinced. I think that I can see bell screws, making me think that it is a rare King 1291 large rotary BBb with the upright bell. Only a very few upright bells were made, and they were tall.
Lee A. Stofer, Jr.
- bububassboner
- pro musician
- Posts: 648
- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:16 am
- Location: Sembach, Germany
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
Alexander has in the past made removable bell tubas. I have seen one with a front facing bell but have never seen one with an upright bell. Just a thought.Lee Stofer wrote:It has been speculated that the unknown player with the unknown tuba in the far upper right of the photo was playing an Alex 164 kaiser, but I'm not convinced. I think that I can see bell screws, making me think that it is a rare King 1291 large rotary BBb with the upright bell. Only a very few upright bells were made, and they were tall.
Big tubas
Little tubas
Army Strong
Go Ducks!
Little tubas
Army Strong
Go Ducks!
- bort
- 6 valves
- Posts: 11223
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:08 pm
- Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
Here's an Alex 163 BBb with a detachable bell. It sold here several years ago.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42712&hilit=alex+detachable
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42712&hilit=alex+detachable
- Dan Schultz
- TubaTinker
- Posts: 10424
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:46 pm
- Location: Newburgh, Indiana
- Contact:
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
Interesting. However... it might be an illusion but the bell stem appears smaller in diameter than the bell stack.bort wrote:Here's an Alex 163 BBb with a detachable bell. It sold here several years ago....
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
-
- bugler
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:45 pm
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
I wouldn't want to bet heavily against Lee's judgement; but FWIW, the back horn sure looks to me to have the contours of an Alex 164 BBb. I used to have one with a detachable upright bell (and I know of one other one). I can send a picture tomorrow of one of the big King BBb's to compare.
Mike
Mike
-
- 4 valves
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:50 am
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
The more that I look at the BART in the upper right-hand corner of the photo, the more I see. There is a very small-radius 1st slide crook, and there is just enough of the lower tubing visible to see that the 3rd slide tubing went to a lower 3rd slide on the front, both consistent with a King 1291 rotor BBb. John Taylor has told me of going on tour with the CSO and Mr. Jacobs as the 2nd tubist, and on tour they met with someone in New York that had one of these horns for sale. Mr. Taylor said it was a marvelous-playing instrument, except that the long upright bell made it a little flat.
Lee A. Stofer, Jr.
- Art Hovey
- pro musician
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 12:28 am
- Location: Connecticut
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
I think Bloke is referring to something like this:Assuming ADULT ownership and gentle handling, maybe it would (have been) a good idea to have installed one or two vertical braces from the female collar with the mouthpipe suspended (via those braces) hovering above the female collar in a more normal position.
I have been using it for about 16 years, as an adult, and recently made some changes to accommodate senior citizenship.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Art Hovey on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- 3 valves
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:40 pm
- Location: Cleveland
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
There is a used 4 valve BBb King Rotary on the Baltimore Brass site right now, with an upright bell. I have seen that horn in the store, and I think it is a 1291 with the upright bell. It is, indeed, a very tall, large horn.
-
- bugler
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:36 am
- Location: Huntington, WV
Re: Bill Bell's Martin CC (actually LB Olivers horn)
Spoke with LB today. Called him to just ask how he was doing and asked him about this. I have no further information that what you all do but it is really nice to be able to call him up and talk. Next week, I'm going up to see and him and Pat for the day and play some duets.