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Once Steven Hawking finishes figuring out the big bang, he is going to take on this question. Once he has solved that all important knowledge will have been gained and the universe will collapse back into a unified point and time will cease to be.

EEb!

YORK-aholic wrote:Really the new standard for orchestral playing is starting to shift to...

Travel tubas and cimbassi

Congratulations on the Alex. Sounds like you found a winner!

tstryk wrote:........ Another reason I was given is the CC has a bit brighter sound than the BBb - a factor I fought with every note I played as the sound was too bright for my taste. That could, of course, be because of the brand (Mirafone) as much as because of the fact it was a CC.

And the specific model you play on, And what mouthpiece you use, and how you play, and even the specific horn you play on.

CC vs BBb is like comparing apples vs oranges. Any generalization about the characteristics of all tubas in one key will be false.

MAYBE I will try this again when I have a computer instead of fighting with thr%$#*--%$# phone!!!!!

As a player who has played BBb tubas and a CC tuba I could tell you the difference is as everyone says on here. It's much easier to play sharp keys on a CC tuba than it is on a BBb tuba. Of course vice-versa, a BBb tuba handles flat keys better than a CC tuba will. I personally prefer CC particularly because of a few reasons.

1. I like the fingerings better than the BBb tuba even though I play band music.
2. The C below the staff is really free blowing, unlike the C on the BBb tuba.
3. The horn I play is large(5/4 size),very rare, and it sounds massive compared to any BBb tuba I have played.

So, there you have it.

So what advantage does a C tuba have in the key of B? Or C#?

In the key of B it would be a lot easier to play on 5-valve CC tuba, on a 4-valve not so much. The B (2nd valve only)below and in the staff would be more in tune compared to the BBb tuba's 123/24 valve combination. A 5 valve CC tuba would play both keys much easier due to valve shortcuts such as this B scale 2-235-15-25-2-23-1-2. The 5th valve thumb trigger is easy to engage and it makes shortcuts for different valve combinations a snap. If it were a 4-valve CC it would be more like this: 2-24-23-12-2-23-1-2. It make not look like much as i'm typing it, but if you play it with the 5th valve, you'll understand what I'm talking about. The same goes for Db/C# key signature as well, much easier with a 5-valve CC.

You could just have a fifth valve on the BBb for the B-natural...

True, but again to each his own. If you prefer a BBb tuba that's fine. Any tuba is a great choice, it all depends on the player.
Just play everything on one key of tuba and try playing it on another and see which one you like best.

Trick question- there are no difficult keys.

Bob Kolada wrote:Trick question- there are no difficult keys.

Exactly, that's why there should be tubas in BB for Ride and tenor tubas in G# for Bydlo

LCTuba89 wrote:The C below the staff is really free blowing, unlike the C on the BBb tuba.

I play low CC 4+5 on my CC when I need to stick it (same tubing length as a BBb...). Little better lock on the note without it pushing sharp. Anyone else do this?

I've been going back and forth between CC and BBb lately, as well as among different size CCs and different size BBbs. Different concert programs (orchestra, band, quintet) had different optimum "firing solutions." Since my horns are all pretty forgiving and evenly responsive (or else I wouldn't have bought/kept them), it's not been that difficult switching off. Yes, I could have done everything on CC. But no, I would not have wanted to play the Prelude to Act III of Lohengrin (for instance) on a BBb. For years I did what I had to do. I like this situation much better.

My AA# tuba has got the sharp keys knocked. In order to play in the others, I have invested equal amounts of time on the non-sharp keys, and played chromatic scales across the range of the instrument, starting on all the different note names. When I pick up my F tuba, many notes are fingered the same, as is the overall pattern.

tstryk wrote:

PMeuph wrote:

tstryk wrote:........ Another reason I was given is the CC has a bit brighter sound than the BBb - a factor I fought with every note I played as the sound was too bright for my taste. That could, of course, be because of the brand (Mirafone) as much as because of the fact it was a CC.

And the specific model you play on, And what mouthpiece you use, and how you play, and even the specific horn you play on.

CC vs BBb is like comparing apples vs oranges. Any generalization about the characteristics of all tubas in one key will be false.

Amen to that! I have played on a lot of Mirafone 186 BBbs and never liked them even though I played a 186 CC for 5 years and loved it. I bought a totally POS beat up, smashed bell, nasty 186 because I was going to have it repaired and flip it - 20 years later, I still have it because it is absolutely the best 186 I have ever played. So, my point is, I totally agree with your statement about it coming down to the specific horn you are playing.

No truer words ever spoken in relation to all instruments. I have had the pleasure of playing consecutive serial number Miraphone BBb detachable recording bell tubas. Mine is fantastic, just like tstryk's horn. The "sister" tuba - I sent back after only one blow as its characteristics just did not suit me at all.

LCTuba89 wrote:As a player who has played BBb tubas and a CC tuba I could tell you the difference is as everyone says on here. It's much easier to play sharp keys on a CC tuba than it is on a BBb tuba. Of course vice-versa, a BBb tuba handles flat keys better than a CC tuba will. I personally prefer CC particularly because of a few reasons.

Sorry to pull you up but all this key stuff is plain bullshit. You get a good tuba in any key, learn to play it well in all keys. Done.
Sure some keys sit well on the fingers on certain horns but it evens out in whatever keyed horn you pick.
It might be true that old marches and transcriptions for Band are often in flat keys but these days in modern music that don't wash. I'm not sure it's ever been the case that 'Orchestral music' is mostly in sharp keys.

LCTuba89 wrote: 1. I like the fingerings better than the BBb tuba even though I play band music.

- Good for you.

2. The C below the staff is really free blowing, unlike the C on the BBb tuba.
3. The horn I play is large(5/4 size),very rare, and it sounds massive compared to any BBb tuba I have played.
So, there you have it.

- Sounds like you haven't played (m)any good Bb tubas?

I got into CC tubas when I went to college because my teacher (high school years) had a CC, teachers where I wanted to go had CC tubas, and the local symphony pro had CC tubas. All of those people went through "the system" at a time when high quality BBb tuba choices were more limited and people like Arnold Jacobs and other orchestral players of that era were mostly on CC tubas, so that served as their influence.

Nobody ever really told me that I had to have a CC...it was just sort of expected that it's what I would get if I was "serious." Now that I'm no longer in school, don't play the tuba for a living, I couldn't tell you why I needed to get a CC tuba. As far as I'm concerned, nobody "needs" to play CC tuba and the selection of high quality tubas of all shapes and sizes and keys is incredible these days. High quality tubas are no longer just CC tubas or just F tubas.

There simply isn't a real reason to switch unless you happen to find a particular instrument in CC that just "speaks to you." I suspect that in my case I could have found more than 1 BBb tuba that I would have been very happy with.

While I made the switch quickly and relatively easily, but can't help but think (now) that I wouldn't have had to "waste" the time learning a new key had I stuck with BBb. I simply would have been able to continue to move forward playing what I already knew.

I think it's especially funny for music educators (ie band directors) to be pushed into CC tubas. I'd guess that far more than the vast majority of those folks end up working with middle school or high school band programs where there are no CC tubas to be found.

And (as a complete tangent), yeah...it impresses nobody to show up to a community band rehearsal with your CC tuba years after you "studied music in college." Nobody cares. And if you really think that you're hot stuff, consider that you're playing in a community band. If you were really that great would you be playing, unpaid (or even PAYING for the opportunity) in such a group?

Tom wrote:And (as a complete tangent), yeah...it impresses nobody to show up to a community band rehearsal with your CC tuba years after you "studied music in college." Nobody cares. And if you really think that you're hot stuff, consider that you're playing in a community band. If you were really that great would you be playing, unpaid (or even PAYING for the opportunity) in such a group?

As you say, a complete tangent. Rafael Mendez played 3rd trumpet in a community band in his later years, and I have a number of professional musician friends who "give back" to the community by playing in a community band.

So, yeah.

Tom wrote:And if you really think that you're hot stuff, consider that you're playing in a community band. If you were really that great would you be playing, unpaid (or even PAYING for the opportunity) in such a group?

Well, there are people who are hot stuff playing in community bands. (Just to be clear, I am not one of them. I play in community bands for the reasons you mention: not hot stuff musically, just like it, and freely admit to being one of the weak links though I pretty much keep up.) But there are quite a few people in the best band I play in who have paying gigs. One is a Curtis graduate. They just like to play and take the opportunities that present themselves.

swillafew wrote:My AA# tuba has got the sharp keys knocked. In order to play in the others, I have invested equal amounts of time on the non-sharp keys, and played chromatic scales across the range of the instrument, starting on all the different note names. When I pick up my F tuba, many notes are fingered the same, as is the overall pattern.

Bahahaha. That is both right and funny, I don't care who you are. I love AA# tubas.

It isn't nearly as funny, but F tubas are surprisingly easy to play for an AA# player. Why did I put off picking one up for so long?