Schilke Helleberg and Jacobs mouthpiece
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Schilke Helleberg and Jacobs mouthpiece
Is there a difference between the Schilke Helleberg mouthpiece and the Arnold Jacobs mouthpiece? I play the latter as one of my primary mouthpieces but have never played a Schilke and would imagine from descriptions that they are very similar. Does anyone know if Ren Schilke designed the mouthpiece after or copied it off of one of Arnold Jacobs' mouthpieces? I'm just wondering about the history of this particular design. Thank you in advance.
Tabor
Tabor
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Mouthpieces
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comparison
Here are a couple photo comparisons of rim shape and size that I did of the G&W Williwaw, Laskey 30G, and the Arnold Jacobs if seeing them side by side helps you in any way.
Paul Sidey, CCM '84
Principal Tubist, Grand Lake Symphony
B&S PT-606 CC - Yamaha YFB-621 F
SSH Mouthpieces http://sshmouthpieces.com/" target="_blank
Principal Tubist, Grand Lake Symphony
B&S PT-606 CC - Yamaha YFB-621 F
SSH Mouthpieces http://sshmouthpieces.com/" target="_blank
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Unless it's the old Warburton Jacobs model. Those have an inner cup diameter of 1.30 inches. That means it's a just barely over 33 mm while the Laskey 30H/SH-II has a 32.89 mm diameter. The Jacobs is a bit bigger.cktuba wrote:Kelly mouthpieces lists the inner diameter of the "Jacobs" model as 1.271in (although they appear to have the standard and solo models reversed) the Laskey 30H (which I am told has the same inner diameter as the SHII) is listed as 1.295in. So it would appear that the SHII is bigger. Which is how I seem to remember them.
To answer the question about the difference from a S-H to a AJ-Helleberg, the AJ Helleberg is a larger, deeper mouthpiece. The Schilke-Helleberg ID is 31.84 mm. If it is the Warburton AJ, it'll also be a lighter mouthpiece. I seem to recall that it weighs something like 6 ounces or so compared to a regular mouthpiece (such as the S-H) which has a weight of 8-11 ounces.
Romans 3:23-24
Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
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Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
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Perhaps the senility is setting in early, but I distinctly recall playing the CB Jacobs Helleberg copy and it was a good deal larger. Perhaps the numbers you cited are right, but the overall internal dimensions seemed larger.cktuba wrote:Kelly mouthpieces lists the inner diameter of the "Jacobs" model as 1.271in (although they appear to have the standard and solo models reversed) the Laskey 30H (which I am told has the same inner diameter as the SHII) is listed as 1.295in. So it would appear that the SHII is bigger. Which is how I seem to remember them.
sean chisham
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You aren't the only one that thinks so...WoodSheddin wrote: Perhaps the senility is setting in early, but I distinctly recall playing the CB Jacobs Helleberg copy and it was a good deal larger. Perhaps the numbers you cited are right, but the overall internal dimensions seemed larger.
Tom "who has both in front of him right now" B.
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Re: Schilke Helleberg and Jacobs mouthpiece
Actually from what I've researched, Ren Schilke got all his Helleberg tuba measurements from the mouthpieces that his wife played. Yep, his wife was a tubist.Tabor wrote: Does anyone know if Ren Schilke designed the mouthpiece after or copied it off of one of Arnold Jacobs' mouthpieces? I'm just wondering about the history of this particular design. Thank you in advance.
Tabor
Romans 3:23-24
Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
- Billy M.
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Don't forget to consider it may just be a larger mpc... the Miraphone Rose mpcs are like this, with the solo having a larger inner diameter than the orchestra model.cktuba wrote:Kelly mouthpieces lists the inner diameter of the "Jacobs" model as 1.271in (although they appear to have the standard and solo models reversed) <snip>
Romans 3:23-24
Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
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Re: Schilke Helleberg and Jacobs mouthpiece
Here are a couple more photograph comparisons, this time of a Schilke Helleberg between an original series Canadian Brass Arnold Jacobs and a UMI "large" Conn Helleberg. I tried to show rim diameter and the rim shape as best possible. While these really are not super accurate, neither are some "official" measurements and I have had several people ask for the images.Tabor wrote:Is there a difference between the Schilke Helleberg mouthpiece and the Arnold Jacobs mouthpiece? I play the latter as one of my primary mouthpieces but have never played a Schilke and would imagine from descriptions that they are very similar. Tabor
Paul Sidey, CCM '84
Principal Tubist, Grand Lake Symphony
B&S PT-606 CC - Yamaha YFB-621 F
SSH Mouthpieces http://sshmouthpieces.com/" target="_blank
Principal Tubist, Grand Lake Symphony
B&S PT-606 CC - Yamaha YFB-621 F
SSH Mouthpieces http://sshmouthpieces.com/" target="_blank