TubeNet

Is there a difference between the Schilke Helleberg mouthpiece and the Arnold Jacobs mouthpiece? I play the latter as one of my primary mouthpieces but have never played a Schilke and would imagine from descriptions that they are very similar. Does anyone know if Ren Schilke designed the mouthpiece after or copied it off of one of Arnold Jacobs' mouthpieces? I'm just wondering about the history of this particular design. Thank you in advance.

Tabor

The Shilke Helleberg is a fairly small mouthpiece. The Shilke Helleberg II is a good deal larger and more "mainstream" to my face. The Jacobs Helleberg copy is larger than the Helleberg II.

Thank you!!! This is why I love Tube Net.



-T

Here are a couple photo comparisons of rim shape and size that I did of the G&W Williwaw, Laskey 30G, and the Arnold Jacobs if seeing them side by side helps you in any way.

Paul, how do you like the Williwaw mpc? It looks very odd. But, if it works. What are the tone qualities from this mpc?

Thanks

cktuba wrote:Kelly mouthpieces lists the inner diameter of the "Jacobs" model as 1.271in (although they appear to have the standard and solo models reversed) the Laskey 30H (which I am told has the same inner diameter as the SHII) is listed as 1.295in. So it would appear that the SHII is bigger. Which is how I seem to remember them.

Unless it's the old Warburton Jacobs model. Those have an inner cup diameter of 1.30 inches. That means it's a just barely over 33 mm while the Laskey 30H/SH-II has a 32.89 mm diameter. The Jacobs is a bit bigger.

To answer the question about the difference from a S-H to a AJ-Helleberg, the AJ Helleberg is a larger, deeper mouthpiece. The Schilke-Helleberg ID is 31.84 mm. If it is the Warburton AJ, it'll also be a lighter mouthpiece. I seem to recall that it weighs something like 6 ounces or so compared to a regular mouthpiece (such as the S-H) which has a weight of 8-11 ounces.

cktuba wrote:Kelly mouthpieces lists the inner diameter of the "Jacobs" model as 1.271in (although they appear to have the standard and solo models reversed) the Laskey 30H (which I am told has the same inner diameter as the SHII) is listed as 1.295in. So it would appear that the SHII is bigger. Which is how I seem to remember them.

Perhaps the senility is setting in early, but I distinctly recall playing the CB Jacobs Helleberg copy and it was a good deal larger. Perhaps the numbers you cited are right, but the overall internal dimensions seemed larger.

WoodSheddin wrote: Perhaps the senility is setting in early, but I distinctly recall playing the CB Jacobs Helleberg copy and it was a good deal larger. Perhaps the numbers you cited are right, but the overall internal dimensions seemed larger.

You aren't the only one that thinks so...

Tom "who has both in front of him right now" B.

Tabor wrote: Does anyone know if Ren Schilke designed the mouthpiece after or copied it off of one of Arnold Jacobs' mouthpieces? I'm just wondering about the history of this particular design. Thank you in advance.

Tabor

Actually from what I've researched, Ren Schilke got all his Helleberg tuba measurements from the mouthpieces that his wife played. Yep, his wife was a tubist.

cktuba wrote:Kelly mouthpieces lists the inner diameter of the "Jacobs" model as 1.271in (although they appear to have the standard and solo models reversed) <snip>

Don't forget to consider it may just be a larger mpc... the Miraphone Rose mpcs are like this, with the solo having a larger inner diameter than the orchestra model.

Tabor wrote:Is there a difference between the Schilke Helleberg mouthpiece and the Arnold Jacobs mouthpiece? I play the latter as one of my primary mouthpieces but have never played a Schilke and would imagine from descriptions that they are very similar. Tabor

Here are a couple more photograph comparisons, this time of a Schilke Helleberg between an original series Canadian Brass Arnold Jacobs and a UMI "large" Conn Helleberg. I tried to show rim diameter and the rim shape as best possible. While these really are not super accurate, neither are some "official" measurements and I have had several people ask for the images.