A long, fun day at Thomann music
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:40 pm
Today I spent the day at Thomann music trying out tubas. They have a huge selection of tubas, including a bunch that are nearly impossible, or completely impossible to play in the States. I don't have many photos of the day, the workers there were giving me some weird looks when I started taking pictures so I stopped. However, I thought I would give you all my impressions on the horns that I tried.
F TUBAS:
Thomann Professional F tuba: This is a Nirschl made F tuba built for Thomann music. All Thomann brand horns are either Chinese or from Nirschl. This horn has the zig zag rotor section like the MW Kronos. Unlike what people have said here water drainage was not a problem, it all drained down to the main slide for easy drainage. This horn was great. It's all hand made and was the lightest tuba in the store. The thing that really stuck out on this horn was the fifth valve. On this horn the fifth valve is after the main tuning slide (like the quint valve on the Cerveny F). Pretty much if you were using the fifth valve it had a banging low register. You could play low C 125 and have the security down low of a piston F. However, the low D and Db still have that low F tuba feeling to them. They feel worse than they are because of how awesome everything below that was. Not a consistent blow in that register. High range was great, super easy and very in tune. It's a shame that this horn is hard to get in the States. For the price (around 7500 euros) It's a lot of horn for the money.
Melton 2260RA: This was the horn I was really looking forward to trying out. It's a pretty good F tuba. The low end is great on this thing. More power than you can ask for. Valves 5 and 6 are on the left hand (6 on top of 5, which I personally hate) and are part of the 4th valve tubing. No stuffiness problems while using all the valves. The high end was what let me down on this horn. This horn sounds great up high but it is very taxing to play above the staff for any period of time. I think the combo of a very open horn with only four valves in the bugle makes this horn just too open. I use a blokepiece solo #2 with the small helleberg rim so maybe a mouthpiece with a tighter throat would help this horn out a bit. Pitch seemed very nice to and didn't really need any slide pulling.
Wilson Rotor F tuba: Wow this is a big horn. This is most likely the heaviest F tuba in production. Scale is very nice and even on this horn. A great low end with no low F tuba problems at all. I felt that because the horn was so heavy it took a bit more energy to get the horn going. The 5th valve level sucks, no way around it. The throw is about twice as long as the other valves. The valve paddles also have these plastic bits in them to give you some grip. Well these plastic bits aren't that tight in the paddles and they make this clicking sound every time you use them. Other than those two things it's a great horn.
Wilson XL Piston F: This horn is just a worse version of the rotor horn. It just wasn't as clear or articulate as it's rotor brother. This horn has a main tuning slide kicker and unfortunately you need it. A very high in pitch C in the staff needs the kicker. Low range is great like the rotor version.
Wilson XS Piston F: This is a cool little horn. This tuba is way heavier than it looks. Response wasn't as fast as I would expect from a small F tuba like this. Very easy to hold and like all the other Wilson horns a great low end. This horn also have a main slide kicker and yes you are gonna need it.
Kanstul Grand F: I really like how this horn sounds and responds. All the slides including the main tuning slide point up and are easy to grab. However, this horn has some pitch problems so you better grab that main slide. The main slide has a two way spring system so you can push or pull and it will return to where you set it. Pretty cool, but I don't want to have to use it all the time.
Miraphone 381 Bel Canto: Awesome tuba. Everything I wish the Firebird was this horn does it. Of all the rotor F tubas there this horn and the Firebird there had the most even low register. Low C rocked on this horn. This horn has a much larger sound than the firebird without losing clarity. A big time win for Miraphone. This horn was all gold brass and while it had a beautiful sound it lacked the "bite" that I want in a tuba. Maybe if only the bell was gold brass it would be better?
Miraphone Firebird: I thought it was a pretty standard Firebird. Good pitch and low end but kind of a small sound. If you don't want the bigger sound of the 381 go for the Firebird.
B&S JBL: Man these horns have a great sound. It is really fun to play these horns. Great pitch and color of sound. This horn's low end wasn't the best but I have played other JBL's that were much better down there so I'm going to chalk it up to model variation. Like all horns try before you buy.
B&S Dan Perantoni piston F: I played this horn at Midwest last year and hated it. Today was a much different take. I found this horn to be very user friendly with very good pitch. I was amazed on how different this horn played for me. I was even using the same mouthpiece as last time. Maybe playing Eb for awhile has improved my F tuba chops? Don't know but this was a nice horn.
B&S PT10P: Okay this horn I expected to suck. I have played 5+ of them in the States and hated each one. This one was different. A great high range above the staff, which had always been a problem for me in the past. low D on down didn't have all the funkiness that I expected. I have thought for a few years that they keep the best horns in Germany and things like this make me think this more and more.
Miraphone Petrushka: In the past I have found a great deal of variation from horn to horn and this one was no different. This one had a much more colorful sound than I expected. This was a very easy horn to just pick up and go. No need to warm up on it to find where all the notes are. Between this horn and the MW 2250 I feel the Yamaha 822 F will go the way of the dodo.
MW Kodiak. Was kinda disappointed with this horn. The F tuba problem area was a bit of a problem on this horn. It was very workable, but for 12,000 euros it better be great. This thing has six valves, 2nd valve kicker, vented valves, automatic sandwich maker and so on. Seems like a bit much for pretty much a 45 SLZ with a different valve block.
Eb TUBAS:
Kanstul Ebs: They had both the top action and the front action there. From the dust on the top action it was easy to tell that it doesn't get much play time. It's good but the front action it better. Now the front action is great. Very easy to play and very nimble. Not as strong of a low register as my Nirschl Eb but it isn't anything to complain about. I was able to play some Prokofiev Romeo and Juliet on it and make it very convincing. If you are looking for an Eb tuba give this a blow.
CC TUBAS:
NONE. Not a single CC tuba to be seen.
BBb TUBAS:
Yes I played the BBb tubas. Good tubas come in all keys, not just CC and F.
WILSON Rotor BBb: Wow! This horn could be deadly in the right hands. If you are looking for a BBb to destroy things in the low register this is it. Such power should require a license to operate. If you do try this beast a lifting belt is advised. This is the heaviest concert tuba I have ever held and I would never put this beast in a gig bag on my back. This horn also had the stupid plastic bits in the rotor paddles.
Thomann Professional BBb tuba (Nirschl rotor BBb)
This wasn't the giga BBb that Nirschl makes, but it was still a large BBb. Just a little bit smaller than the Fafner. This horn is all hand made and is a very light and responsive tuba. Think of it as something in between the Alex 163 and 164 in size. I do wish that either they added a 5th valve or made the 4th valve easier to grab. But other than that a good, expensive (about 10,000 euros) horn.
Rudy Meinl BBb:
I'm not super sure what model this was. It was size wise close to the Fafner but not quite as big. These horns (we have a few different Rudy's at work) are not the kind of horn you can just pick up and go. I bet though if you really put the time and energy into learning to play these they would sound great.
There were other tubas there but this is plenty for tonight. If any of you have any questions about this trip or any of the horns there just post here and ask away. The facebook thing isnt working so here is a photobucket link.
Enjoy
http://s299.beta.photobucket.com/user/b ... nn%20visit" target="_blank
F TUBAS:
Thomann Professional F tuba: This is a Nirschl made F tuba built for Thomann music. All Thomann brand horns are either Chinese or from Nirschl. This horn has the zig zag rotor section like the MW Kronos. Unlike what people have said here water drainage was not a problem, it all drained down to the main slide for easy drainage. This horn was great. It's all hand made and was the lightest tuba in the store. The thing that really stuck out on this horn was the fifth valve. On this horn the fifth valve is after the main tuning slide (like the quint valve on the Cerveny F). Pretty much if you were using the fifth valve it had a banging low register. You could play low C 125 and have the security down low of a piston F. However, the low D and Db still have that low F tuba feeling to them. They feel worse than they are because of how awesome everything below that was. Not a consistent blow in that register. High range was great, super easy and very in tune. It's a shame that this horn is hard to get in the States. For the price (around 7500 euros) It's a lot of horn for the money.
Melton 2260RA: This was the horn I was really looking forward to trying out. It's a pretty good F tuba. The low end is great on this thing. More power than you can ask for. Valves 5 and 6 are on the left hand (6 on top of 5, which I personally hate) and are part of the 4th valve tubing. No stuffiness problems while using all the valves. The high end was what let me down on this horn. This horn sounds great up high but it is very taxing to play above the staff for any period of time. I think the combo of a very open horn with only four valves in the bugle makes this horn just too open. I use a blokepiece solo #2 with the small helleberg rim so maybe a mouthpiece with a tighter throat would help this horn out a bit. Pitch seemed very nice to and didn't really need any slide pulling.
Wilson Rotor F tuba: Wow this is a big horn. This is most likely the heaviest F tuba in production. Scale is very nice and even on this horn. A great low end with no low F tuba problems at all. I felt that because the horn was so heavy it took a bit more energy to get the horn going. The 5th valve level sucks, no way around it. The throw is about twice as long as the other valves. The valve paddles also have these plastic bits in them to give you some grip. Well these plastic bits aren't that tight in the paddles and they make this clicking sound every time you use them. Other than those two things it's a great horn.
Wilson XL Piston F: This horn is just a worse version of the rotor horn. It just wasn't as clear or articulate as it's rotor brother. This horn has a main tuning slide kicker and unfortunately you need it. A very high in pitch C in the staff needs the kicker. Low range is great like the rotor version.
Wilson XS Piston F: This is a cool little horn. This tuba is way heavier than it looks. Response wasn't as fast as I would expect from a small F tuba like this. Very easy to hold and like all the other Wilson horns a great low end. This horn also have a main slide kicker and yes you are gonna need it.
Kanstul Grand F: I really like how this horn sounds and responds. All the slides including the main tuning slide point up and are easy to grab. However, this horn has some pitch problems so you better grab that main slide. The main slide has a two way spring system so you can push or pull and it will return to where you set it. Pretty cool, but I don't want to have to use it all the time.
Miraphone 381 Bel Canto: Awesome tuba. Everything I wish the Firebird was this horn does it. Of all the rotor F tubas there this horn and the Firebird there had the most even low register. Low C rocked on this horn. This horn has a much larger sound than the firebird without losing clarity. A big time win for Miraphone. This horn was all gold brass and while it had a beautiful sound it lacked the "bite" that I want in a tuba. Maybe if only the bell was gold brass it would be better?
Miraphone Firebird: I thought it was a pretty standard Firebird. Good pitch and low end but kind of a small sound. If you don't want the bigger sound of the 381 go for the Firebird.
B&S JBL: Man these horns have a great sound. It is really fun to play these horns. Great pitch and color of sound. This horn's low end wasn't the best but I have played other JBL's that were much better down there so I'm going to chalk it up to model variation. Like all horns try before you buy.
B&S Dan Perantoni piston F: I played this horn at Midwest last year and hated it. Today was a much different take. I found this horn to be very user friendly with very good pitch. I was amazed on how different this horn played for me. I was even using the same mouthpiece as last time. Maybe playing Eb for awhile has improved my F tuba chops? Don't know but this was a nice horn.
B&S PT10P: Okay this horn I expected to suck. I have played 5+ of them in the States and hated each one. This one was different. A great high range above the staff, which had always been a problem for me in the past. low D on down didn't have all the funkiness that I expected. I have thought for a few years that they keep the best horns in Germany and things like this make me think this more and more.
Miraphone Petrushka: In the past I have found a great deal of variation from horn to horn and this one was no different. This one had a much more colorful sound than I expected. This was a very easy horn to just pick up and go. No need to warm up on it to find where all the notes are. Between this horn and the MW 2250 I feel the Yamaha 822 F will go the way of the dodo.
MW Kodiak. Was kinda disappointed with this horn. The F tuba problem area was a bit of a problem on this horn. It was very workable, but for 12,000 euros it better be great. This thing has six valves, 2nd valve kicker, vented valves, automatic sandwich maker and so on. Seems like a bit much for pretty much a 45 SLZ with a different valve block.
Eb TUBAS:
Kanstul Ebs: They had both the top action and the front action there. From the dust on the top action it was easy to tell that it doesn't get much play time. It's good but the front action it better. Now the front action is great. Very easy to play and very nimble. Not as strong of a low register as my Nirschl Eb but it isn't anything to complain about. I was able to play some Prokofiev Romeo and Juliet on it and make it very convincing. If you are looking for an Eb tuba give this a blow.
CC TUBAS:
NONE. Not a single CC tuba to be seen.
BBb TUBAS:
Yes I played the BBb tubas. Good tubas come in all keys, not just CC and F.
WILSON Rotor BBb: Wow! This horn could be deadly in the right hands. If you are looking for a BBb to destroy things in the low register this is it. Such power should require a license to operate. If you do try this beast a lifting belt is advised. This is the heaviest concert tuba I have ever held and I would never put this beast in a gig bag on my back. This horn also had the stupid plastic bits in the rotor paddles.
Thomann Professional BBb tuba (Nirschl rotor BBb)
This wasn't the giga BBb that Nirschl makes, but it was still a large BBb. Just a little bit smaller than the Fafner. This horn is all hand made and is a very light and responsive tuba. Think of it as something in between the Alex 163 and 164 in size. I do wish that either they added a 5th valve or made the 4th valve easier to grab. But other than that a good, expensive (about 10,000 euros) horn.
Rudy Meinl BBb:
I'm not super sure what model this was. It was size wise close to the Fafner but not quite as big. These horns (we have a few different Rudy's at work) are not the kind of horn you can just pick up and go. I bet though if you really put the time and energy into learning to play these they would sound great.
There were other tubas there but this is plenty for tonight. If any of you have any questions about this trip or any of the horns there just post here and ask away. The facebook thing isnt working so here is a photobucket link.
Enjoy
http://s299.beta.photobucket.com/user/b ... nn%20visit" target="_blank
