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As an Englishman, I have been wondering what are the origins of that strange on the shoulder tuba you play in the USA called a Contra. The origins of the sousaphone are well known, but I have never read about the contra.

When was it invented and for who?

How do you decide to use sousaphone, or contra - both parade tubas?

Personally having tried playing sousaphone and contra, I would prefer the former any day for both ergonomics and sound - just my opinion

The contra was developed to meet the requests for the drum and bugle cores which have become very popular over here. These groups have become very sophisticate in both drill patterns and music. They started playing 1 and 2 valved G pitched horns. Now they are using 3 and 4 valves and in Bb and F and the kind of things you would find in a brass band. Who chooses a sousaphone or a contra? Well, it depends on the style of your marching group. Traditional styled groups are more likely to choose a Sousaphone. Some schools have chosen to go with contras in hopes of using it in an up-right configuration in a concert band setting which still being able to march with it. An economic compromise at best.....

The 'Contra', (or Contra-bass tuba) was invented back in the '60s for use in the Drum and Bugle Corps (now called 'Drum Corps'). Back when I played in one of the Air Force Drum & Bugle Corps (1966-67), they were all in the key of 'G' with just one piston valve and one rotor.

See this link for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrabass_bugle

If you really want to get technical a 'contra' (short for contrabass bugle) only refers to the marching bugle pitched in G. the modern BBb version that drum corps (and some marching bands) use is technically called a marching tuba. I don't really care, though, I still call 'em contras anyway because I'm lazy.
Btw, the fiberglass contra looks really cool, I've never seen one before! Could you put a demo of it on YouTube? I'd like to hear how it sounds.

The contra bass bugle was invented in the late 50's by Whaley-Royce, a Canadian company. They were not 'legal' for use by American drum & bugle corps until the mid '60's.

tstryk wrote:

SousaWarrior9 wrote: Btw, the fiberglass contra looks really cool, I've never seen one before! Could you put a demo of it on YouTube? I'd like to hear how it sounds.

Probably not quite as good as a fiberglass sousaphone which sounds like I imagine a whale fart would sound

My high school band instructor wanted me to play a fiberglass sousaphone in concert band because he said it sounded better than the 186 I played when I could. Go figure. He left the next year and the new guy when I told him that said "play the 186"

tstryk wrote:

SousaWarrior9 wrote: Btw, the fiberglass contra looks really cool, I've never seen one before! Could you put a demo of it on YouTube? I'd like to hear how it sounds.

Probably not quite as good as a fiberglass sousaphone which sounds like I imagine a whale fart would sound

Same water displacement capabilities?

tuba72 wrote:My high school band instructor wanted me to play a fiberglass sousaphone in concert band because he said it sounded better than the 186 I played when I could. Go figure. He left the next year and the new guy when I told him that said "play the 186"

I guess if you were the only bass, the sousaphone just projected better with forward facing bell?

tstryk wrote:But who would want anything that sounded like a fiberglass sousaphone to be heard?

On my high school's limited budget, we did have some 1st generation King fiberglass souzys that with the thicker multiple layer fiberglass had to do double duty for both concert and marching. They did alright, not optimal, but alright, until the school could afford a section of King tubas.

I'm curious: since these are relatively modern instruments, what's the reason for the bizarre valve setup? Why not at least 3 valves to allow chromaticism?

UncleBeer wrote:I'm curious: since these are relatively modern instruments, what's the reason for the bizarre valve setup? Why not at least 3 valves to allow chromaticism?

Almost no one makes GG contras anymore. I know Kanstul still does, but they have 3 valves. What are mostly (incorrectly) referred to as contras today DO have 3 valves and are in BBb.

Old bugles in drum corps only had 1 to 2 valves and were pitched in G because any other instrument was against regulations. But a rule change (early 90's??) allowed for any key (and 3-valve) brass instrument to be played.

Here's a good use for the DEG M875... http://thevillagetinker.com/deg_m875_ma ... ersion.htm

SousaWarrior9 wrote:Old bugles in drum corps only had 1 to 2 valves and were pitched in G because any other instrument was against regulations.

But according to this thread, the older instruments were 'invented' in the '50s or '60s. Why such a cockamamie 'regulation'? What was the point?

Scout based drum corps movement wanted seclusion from the school and community based marching bands:

http://www.unitedalumni.com/History/his ... _corps.htm

SousaWarrior9 wrote: Almost no one makes GG contras anymore. I know Kanstul still does, but they have 3 valves. What are mostly (incorrectly) referred to as contras today DO have 3 valves and are in BBb.

Old bugles in drum corps only had 1 to 2 valves and were pitched in G because any other instrument was against regulations. But a rule change (early 90's??) allowed for any key (and 3-valve) brass instrument to be played.

The first bugles (1920's) had no valves, then they added one, then they added a rotor to go with the valve, then two valves in the 1970's. In the late 1980's the rule change allowing 3 valves in G so arrangers could write in more keys with no missing notes. Several years later they allowed instruments pitched in Bb with the express exception of the trombone. All instruments must be of bell front design. The BBb version of the contra is called a "tuba" in today's drum corps.

Kanstul still can make just about anything you want. These 2 valve GG contras were custom ordered my the U.S. Marine Corps Drum & Bugle Corps in 2006. They have a custom rotory valve to extend the tuning slide to allow tuning adjustments for the missing 3 valve. In the old days they used to have really long tuning slides that they would do a long pull on so they could hit certain notes when needed.

UncleBeer wrote:I'm curious: since these are relatively modern instruments, what's the reason for the bizarre valve setup? Why not at least 3 valves to allow chromaticism?

My understanding is that the standard U.S. Army field bugle was pitched in G. The corps got started when the Army moved away from using bugles as signalling devices and a large number of them became available as surplus. After a while corps started to equip some of their bugles with D slides. This would give the group access to the notes of a diatonic scale. Add in someone with an F# slide or valve and you have a fair number of chromatic possibilities. You would still have to score for the group like it was a wind-driven hand bell choir. I suspect the introduction of multiple valves was a way to creep slowly toward a group where individual instruments could play chromatically.

Before DCI the big competitions were sponsored by the American Legion, who also held band competitions. My first corps contest was the American Legion finals held at Georgia Tech in 1969. They kept the rules in place to keep the instruments separate from the band competitions. The horns had a piston and a rotary valve, but also had a pullable slide to help add notes and theoretically fix intonation. Some of the wonky notes in the old arrangements were because of unadjusted notes or notes missing from the horn's range, and most of the charts back then were learned by rote rather than by reading. Many of the players were untrained in other instruments.

DCI was founded partly because the old Legion rules were too restrictive, and many of the directors wanted improved instruments. The change to fully chromatic instruments was pretty much inevitable because of evolving musical tastes.

The Marine Drum and Bugle Corps still uses two valve G horns because if they used 3 valved Bb horns they would be considered a band.

Neptune wrote: Personally having tried playing sousaphone and contra, I would prefer the former any day for both ergonomics and sound - just my opinion

I totally agree!

opus37 wrote:The contra was developed to meet the requests for the drum and bugle cores which have become very popular over here.

Are you attempting to refer to the "core" of a particular drum and bugle "corps?" Just wondering....