TubeNet

Hi,

I am playing Bb tuba for a British Brass band and I want to make sure I'm transposing correctly. Is the correct way to add 2 flats and read down a whole step? Ex. A treble D would become a concert C?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

What you say sounds right. Only there is the catch of getting the right octave. D in the BBb treble clef staff equals C in the bass clef staff. Only the visual placement of the D in the BBb treble clef staff is a fourth higher than the C in the bass clef staff.

Klaus

So...if one was fluent with tenor clef notation that would work, right? I ask because I play in a British-style brass band. I play Eb which is an easy read. The other day I tried a BBb part on my C tuba (I don't have a BBb) and it didn't go well.
Pete

Yes, the note placement in the BBb tuba part equals the placement in the imaginary tenor-clef-one-octave-down.

I can transpose, but didn’t need it in brass band except when playing from the BBb part on an Eb. And then there are various reading methods depending on the player’s background.

I once was a brass band ringer on bassbone. Another ringer was a conservatory student who played the BBb part on a huge rotary Hirsbrunner CC. He obviously was a strong player, but I still wondered how he avoided reading errors from a notation he wasn’t familiar with. I had assumed he used his skills from reading piano music and then transposed. Not so. He fingered the part as if he read bass clef concert on an F tuba.

Klaus

Someone wrote, "Eb is easy." I play Eb, but have only played with bass clef music. Does anyone have a treble clef fingering chart for British Band Eb music?

There are two ways that I use.
First: if you are familiar with trumpet fingerings just use them e.g. WRITTEN "middle"c (1st leger line below staff)=open, d=1-3, e=1-2, f=1, g=open, a=1-2, b=2, c(3rd space)=open.
OR
Second: think bass clef and think the key signature a minor 3rd higher (or Major 6th lower) e.g.: key of C =key of Eb, key of D-key of F,etc. You just read the notes that are printed as if they were in bass clef. (Middle c in treble clef occupies the same position relative to the staff as Eb(1st leger line below the staff) in the bass bass clef.
I use both but, for me I have to pick one method before I start and stick to it. If I switch part way through the rehearsal, I tend to mess myself up.
Hope this helps.
Pete

In a brass band that I play in we had the same problem with many tubists who come sit in. If you can remember back to your trumpet days (if you had them) the fingerings are identicle. I have had more luck just handing players a beginner method book for a treble clef instrument and having them learn it through excersises. At first its a pain but then you realize you can read treble faster than bass after a while because the money zone of the horn is more in the staff IMO. tring to add key signatures and moving pitches in your head might be more of a nuesance, especially for BBb bass. I started out in a sax book and spent a few weeks reading in there. Just a different thought.

opus37 wrote:Someone wrote, "Eb is easy." I play Eb, but have only played with bass clef music. Does anyone have a treble clef fingering chart for British Band Eb music?

transposition is straight across. just add 3 flats to the treble key and your golden.

tank wrote:

opus37 wrote:Someone wrote, "Eb is easy." I play Eb, but have only played with bass clef music. Does anyone have a treble clef fingering chart for British Band Eb music?

transposition is straight across. just add 3 flats to the treble key and your golden.

Well, not exactly. F sharps become A naturals. C sharps become E naturals. G flats become B DOUBLE flats, and so on.

Thanks for the information. I have done that transposition with piano music often. I was thinking the treble clef Eb bass music might have been transposed somehow, thus changing the fingerings. Your right, this is easy.

Glad to know that I was correct in my thinking. Thanks for your help!

Transposing "by clef" works well enough - Get a trumpet method (Arban), and start going over familiar territory. Then get some UNfamiliar trumpet method, and force yourself to read it, too. I do this with all my euphonium students - it's 2-clef axe - deal with it.

If you can, try not reading anything else BUT Bb treble transposed music (trumpet, tenor sax, treble clef baritone horn, etc.) for at least a week - saturation works - and keep up with both "concert" bass clef and treble clef Bb stuff afterward. Eb is NOT a transposition - you just change the key signature and the sharps...

IF you ever start reading treble Eb tuba parts with an Eb tuba you'll just use your "trumpet" fingerings.

The Brit Brass Band thinking is players learn fingerings ONCE, and move around the band as needed by the organization. The old thinking was that after two weeks on the new mouthpiece the player would "get it". Most tuba players of consequence I've known simply acquire the fingerings for the differently keyed horns and many transpose by clef. You can play alto clef by "thinking" Bb treble clef - that middle line is b-flat... and so on.

The musicianly way to do this is solfeggio of course, but for many the shortcuts will do just fine.

This not a waste of time - I used to make some money covering fifth reed books (bari sax, bassoon, bass clarinet & bass saxophone) on shows - reading bass sax parts without recopying everything.

Expand your versatility - learn to play out of tune in ALL keys and clefs!

Mark Heter

Closely related to transposing by clef is reading by pitch. Everybody I've ever talked to who grew up with perfect pitch reads this way. So....you know the fingerings for the pitches on the instrument you're playing, and you know the pitches for the note positions in the clef you're reading. You read the music, hear the pitch in your head just like you hear the words you read on this page, and then you play that pitch on the instrument in your hands. This lets you read any transposition while playing any instrument, without the mental gymnastics involved in "every note I play has to be "X interval" above/below what it normally would be."

The difference between transposing by clef and reading by pitch is in how the written note is perceived....by fingering or by pitch. Both will sometimes say that they read a moveable clef.

I know it wasn't the question but occasionally this means something to someone.

MA

I agree that if a BBb bassist who reads bass clef concert pitch is going to play in a British-style brass band with the transposed treble clef notation, the best way is to get an Arbans, or Rubank advanced, or any mid-level trumpet/cornet/baritone treble clef method book and just learn it. Just learn it. Period. I started on trumpet in 5th grade band, and when I switched to tuba & souzy in high school, I did the same thing in reverse. I just learned the bass clef conventionally. Just did it. Period.

In the end, if a person is going to play the different notations, it just has to be learned: no shortcuts, no fixes, no excuses. Just do it.

iiipopes wrote:I agree that if a BBb bassist who reads bass clef concert pitch is going to play in a British-style brass band with the transposed treble clef notation, the best way is to get an Arbans, or Rubank advanced, or any mid-level trumpet/cornet/baritone treble clef method book and just learn it. Just learn it. Period. I started on trumpet in 5th grade band, and when I switched to tuba & souzy in high school, I did the same thing in reverse. I just learned the bass clef conventionally. Just did it. Period.

In the end, if a person is going to play the different notations, it just has to be learned: no shortcuts, no fixes, no excuses. Just do it.

+100

iiipopes wrote:I agree that if a BBb bassist who reads bass clef concert pitch is going to play in a British-style brass band with the transposed treble clef notation, the best way is to get an Arbans, or Rubank advanced, or any mid-level trumpet/cornet/baritone treble clef method book and just learn it. Just learn it. Period. I started on trumpet in 5th grade band, and when I switched to tuba & souzy in high school, I did the same thing in reverse. I just learned the bass clef conventionally. Just did it. Period.

In the end, if a person is going to play the different notations, it just has to be learned: no shortcuts, no fixes, no excuses. Just do it.

And I will third this motion. I get tired of arguing with other players about supposed "transpositions," tenor clef down an octave, reading it a 4th down with 2 flats, ect.ect. In the end it just saves everyone in your section stress and frustration when the player just sits down and READS the part as is. It is not rocket science but a lot of players think it can be.

let's face it....people have different abilities. someone asks for advice in this situation, every possibility should be offered. For some, the 5th valve solution is the best. Far from perfect, but plenty of people do it. Some can transpose, some by pitch some by clef. some have no clue what is being discussed. some are just here for the beer chicks.