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I decided to go window shopping for the first time in about 10 years today at the NAMM Show in Anaheim, CA. Being that I don't live anywhere close to the midwest or east coast where there seem to be lots of chances to find a wide selection of horns in one place to try out. I had been out-of-the-loop as a player for quite a while until two years ago, so I don't really know where to find a good selection of horns in SoCal. Unfortunately this show is a meeting place for the "rock n' roll" crowd more than for band and orchestra folks. Lots of guitars, drums, keyboards and electronics, but not much in the way of brass and woodwinds. It seems they don't cater to the educational market much at this show. But luckily there were a few horns to check out. I even bumped into my old tuba instructor from my college days many, many years ago, Jim Self, who very graciously introduced me to Norm Pearson.

Anyway, I was looking mostly at BBb tubas since there were not many CC or Eb horns on display. So they must have been aiming for the educational market at least a little. I am still an old time BBb guy, so that's what I secretly wanted to try anyhow.

I got to try out the Jupiter tubas and was very impressed with the 582S 4v BBb. For an inexpensive horn it played quite nice. Fairly dark, free blowing and good intonation. I would recommend this horn to any school program or amateur player.


Jupiter 582S BBb tuba

I tried both the 3/4 and 5/4 models from Zig Kanstul. I have known Zig for years and have bought many of is horns for my marching band. But I was not really impressed with these tubas. The largest bore offered was only .689 and the 4th valve on both played a little stuffy. But pitch seemed to be pretty good.


Kanstul 3/4 BBb Tuba - Kanstul 5/4 BBb Tuba

King, Conn, Holton and Bach all shared one large booth and disapointedly only had one tuba on display, a King 2341. The valves felt really nice but the high range of the horn played VERY out of tune. I was not impressed at all.


King 2341 - Cerveny CC

There was one large Cerveny CC 5v on display at Amati's booth. It played with much more resistance than any other horn I tried all day, but had a nice sound and played fairly well in tune. But it was not my cup of tea.

At the DEG/Weril booth I tried the Weril 3/4 BBb tuba. For a small horn it played pretty darn good. Nice fat low notes, not real dark, but fat. Good intonation up the scale to high Bb.

I couldn't find any Yamaha concert tubas, or Miraphones, Willsons, Meinl Weston or Hirsbrunners either.... I was really bummed.

BUT.... I did find the new 900 series Besson BBb prototype tuba on display! What a great horn!!!!! Big fat and dark... with the low range of your dreams. 4th valve responded like I have never experienced before... WOW! I also tried a BE 995 CC, but it seemed much brighter sounding than the BBb. Both were very responsive through a 3 octave + range and intonation didn't seem to be a problem at all. And of course they had a BE 983 Eb to try as well. Only I haven't played an Eb tuba in over 20 years so I won't try to make any kind of comparisons. What can I say... my ear is stuck in Bb mode....


Besson 900 Series Prototype BBb Tuba

I also did a comparison of the three marching BBb Tubas (contra basses) that were on display. The Yamaha 3v marching tuba is by far the best playing contra style horn. Between tuning Bb and low Bb it really kicks out the sound. It plays so free and easy that it is hard to sound bad on it. Once I adjusted all the slides a little it play right in tune as well. The DEG/Dynasty marching tuba comes with 4 valves and plays real nice too, but has a couple high notes, top line Ab in particular, that are a little rough around the edges. Good low range with the extra 4th valve. I have been a big Kanstul fan a long time, but I have to rate their BBb marching tuba third. Same problem as their concert horns, slightly stuffy low end.


Yamaha - DEG/Dynasty - Kanstul BBb Marching Tubas

I also looked at many of the Chinese tubas as well. None were really worth mentioning except the Jin Bao large bore (18.5 mm) sousaphone. Surprizingly good sounding horn. My attention was drawn to it when I noticed the valves... they have their own version of the short stoke large diameter valves with oval ports. Give them a few years and maybe they'll be putting out some more good instruments.


Jin Bao Sousaphone

Any other comparisons or comments from the members of TubaNet are more than welcome. I have many years worth of tuba window shopping to catch up on.....

(((About the Jupiter big one you mean 582?))) problem solved.

Anterux wrote:About the Jupiter big one you mean 582?

Opps.... I must have inverted the numbers... I'll fix it.

Nice photos.
I'm realy interessed in reviews if jupiter 582.
can you tell some more of it?
why everybody says it's good "for the money"?
what is the difference between a good tuba and a good tuba "for the money"?
I cant speak well english I dont know if I'm making me understand...
Why is it only for students or amateurs? what are the differences to a "more professional" tuba?

Bandmaster wrote:I decided to go window shopping for the first time in about 10 years today at the NAMM Show in Anaheim, CA...Unfortunately this show is a meeting place for the "rock n' roll" crowd more than for band and orchestra folks. Lots of guitars, drums, keyboards and electronics, but not much in the way of brass and woodwinds.

The NAMM Show caters to its namesake: National Association of Music Merchants, as opposed to Midwest Band and Orchestra Clinic, which is designed primarily with music educators in mind. Even those music merchants who do "serve" the school market with B & O instruments far outnumber the merchants who sell in "niche" markets (e.g. to professionals, or featuring less common instruments such as TUBAS, etc.).

I even bumped into my old tuba instructor from my college days many, many years ago, Jim Self, who very graciously introduced me to Norm Pearson.

Why were they at the Show? Were they representing Yamaha?

Anterux wrote:I'm realy interessed in reviews if jupiter 582.
can you tell some more of it?
why everybody says it's good "for the money"?
what is the difference between a good tuba and a good tuba "for the money"?
I cant speak well english I dont know if I'm making me understand...
Why is it only for students or amateurs? what are the differences to a "more professional" tuba?

Well, for one it is marketed as a student model horn by the manufacturer. It is not very expensive as tubas go and it is unique in design. It is definately not a copy of some other horn. Maybe I shouldn't have said "for students or amateurs", but that is their target market. I have been thinking about getting a second smaller horn to go with my Holton BAT, and I am seriously considering this Jupiter tuba. But when you pick up a horn like the Besson 993 you can "feel" the difference between it and a "student" model horn. It just feels more substantial....

jszkutko wrote:Sorry to be pedantic but the pic of the 993 you have is actually the C horn. I was almost convinced that Besson had changed the design of the original 993, but if you look at your pic it's got a rotor. Judging by the structure I think the 993 is behind it.

Yes it has a 5th rotory valve, but the photo is definitely the BBb Besson. Besson was engraved on the bell and there was a tag on it saying it was the 900 series BBb prototype. I assumed it was the 993, but maybe I am wrong on that one small point (I have never seen a 993). Like I also said someone had a 995 CC in that booth as well and the two horns looked almost identical. The horn behind it I also played, it is a student model 3v BBb tuba made in India. I considered it a junior high school grade horn.

Steve Marcus wrote:Why were they (Jim Self & Norm Pearson) at the Show? Were they representing Yamaha?

I did run into Jim and Norm at the Yamaha exhibit. I was just happy to meet them, I didn't bother asking them why they were there. He is sponsored by Yamaha so I assume he was fullfilling his duties to them. In fact I asked him why Yamaha had no concert tubas on display, and all he could say was that this was not a "pro" show. I found that slightly confusing since all the manufacturers had the very best trumpets, saxophones and other smaller instruments on display with pros performing demos on many of them. But then tubas are kind of a "niche" market and they are much more expensive and difficult to transport. I just wish I knew when and where you can go on the west coast to try out a really good selection of horns.

Try Tony Clements
http://www.lowbrasswerks.com/

[quote="I found that slightly confusing since all the manufacturers had the very best trumpets, saxophones and other smaller instruments on display with pros performing demos on many of them. But then tubas are kind of a "niche" market and they are much more expensive and difficult to transport. I just wish I knew when and where you can go on the west coast to try out a really good selection of horns. [/quote]

I used to work for Yamaha. Many of the horns we would take to shows were pre-sold to a dealer in the area. They would get the instrument for a discount for letting us show it first. The only year I went to NAMM with Yamaha was in 1995. That year we took the 822 F and CC, the 621 in BBb and CC, as well as some G marching conversion prototypes (lots of other stuff, too.

I believe we ended up shipping all the tubas back to Grand Rapids after the show (rather than leaving the with a dealer). This is expensive. In short, the NAMM show is important, but the type of deals being made rarely include band and orchestra instrument sales.

One place I remember seeing a lot of instruments was at the California music educators conference (CMEA?). It has been over fifteen years since I last attended, so I don't know if this helps. Perhaps Fergussen's has horns in stock. Also check out Low Brass Werks in San Jose.... I know its 5 or so hours away.

I want to know if Yamaha has the 6/4 York on display.

MellowSmokeMan wrote:I want to know if Yamaha has the 6/4 York on display.

Nope... "Monica" was nowhere in sight.

Brit wrote:Dunno about the product number (993 or whatever) but Mr N has produced a Bb counterpart to the 995 C.
5valves non-comp 4+1.
Basically this is the B&M Bb but made but Besson...

I tried one briefly a year or so ago and it blew fantastic. I then EMailed Besson to ask about production plans and predictably got no response.

As I recall the 993 is a 4v comp with the front valves.

Sorry about the confussion, but like I said, I have been out-of-the-loop for for a while and haven't shopped around and looked at horns in over 10 years. We'll just have to call it the "Besson BE 900 prototype" for now. But I hope they start producing it pretty soon, it plays awesome! I liked it much better than the BE 995 CC.

My friend and I got badges though Yamaha, and when we went to pick them up I discovered that my name was going to be Norman Pearson for the day. I guess it was easier to give me his badge (since he wasnt coming) than have a new one made, but boy is that guy's reputation ruined!

The first thing I heard when I entered the exhibit hall was elephants. Normally the background noise from the band instrument section of NAMM is the background rumble of drums, guitar demos, and immense crowd noise with screeching trumpet notes on top. Instead, I heard elephants and then some tuba like noises. So I followed my ears to the Besson display where none other than Sotto Voce was playing the absolute most difficult tuba quartet music I've ever heard, and they were just incredible. They all played Besson instruments, CC, Eb, and two euphoniums. Nat McIntosh played sousaphone on one tune and blasted out every crazy "Warrior" lick you've ever heard. It was a mighty performance, and they did show after show.

Besson had their new prototype BBb there. It was very easy to play from top to bottom, had a focused tone with plenty of low end, and the tone was more akin to a CC tuba than what a BBb normally sounds like. They had a 983 Eb available also, but I really did not like it. It just doesn't feel or sound like the air inside resonates very much.

The Kanstul tubas were just OK. I thought their little tuba sounded better in BBb than CC, oddly enough. The big tuba looked a lot bigger than it sounded, and it didn't respond to dynamics very well.

Jupiter had a 582 on display. I tried it. It was difficult to play cleanly and didn't have much oomph in the bottom end.

Out of curiosity, I tried the Jin Bao rotary tuba most similar to the ones that appear constantly on ebay. It was a strange horn. The notes from F to C below the staff were incredibly full, but everything below that played more like a false tone and everything above felt strange.

The shocker for me at this show was the larger Jin Bao sousaphone. It played very well, had a full sound that responded well to dynamics, and clean attacks were very easy to produce. Of all the tubas I've played, the one BBb tuba that felt and sounded the most similar to this sousaphone was the prototype Besson at this show. The Jin Bao played a little flat toward the top of the staff it seemed, though I had no reference with which to compare. If it plays in tune, it is a very very good sousaphone. The salesman offered it to me on the spot for $1600 brand new, and that's the retail price.

Another scary instrument in the sense that it makes you visualize the wealth being drained from this country was a trumpet at the Besson display. I tried the Schilkes, the Kanstuls, the Getzens, and the Conns, but there was one Besson student trumpet with a sticker saying "Made in India" that was the best trumpet I tried. It had a beautiful tone and an effortless upper register. Maybe it was a fluke and they screwed it up just the right way in manufacture, but what if they didn't?

-Eric

Shockwave wrote:My friend and I got badges though Yamaha, and when we went to pick them up I discovered that my name was going to be Norman Pearson for the day. I guess it was easier to give me his badge (since he wasnt coming) than have a new one made, but boy is that guy's reputation ruined!

That's too funny. When Jim Self introduced Norm to me he joked about Norm's name on his badge. The badge Norm had on at that time showed his name was Robert. What day were you there? I was there on Friday from 1 to 5 pm.

I was really disappointed when I got to the Besson display and found out that I had just missed the last tuba quartet performance of the day.

We seem to agree on all the playability of all the horns except the Jupiter 582. Maybe I had in the back of my mind that it is about $5000 cheaper than the Besson? That could make a horn sound pretty good....

Shockwave wrote:My friend and I got badges though Yamaha, and when we went to pick them up I discovered that my name was going to be Norman Pearson for the day. I guess it was easier to give me his badge (since he wasnt coming) than have a new one made, but boy is that guy's reputation ruined!
-Eric

I was surprised when they told me they gave my badge away (since they knew I would be there) but I’m glad it went to a tuba player and not a tongue studded, tattooed rock and roll wanna-be.

I hope I didn’t wreck Robert whoever’s reputation by using his badge

Norm Pearson