Best Bb Piston 4v and 5v horns

Davidrn1 · Post by **Davidrn1** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:36 pm

I am doing some research and compiling a wish list, so to speak, of Bb 4 and 5v tubas that I am going to play test when I am able to return to playing. I am looking for feedback on these horns so I can be well informed in making a choice.

I researched the VMI 3301 5 years ago when I bought my first one. I was very happy with the info I got here about that horn, and others. At that time I played 20 tubas and bought the VMI. Same thing when I bought my 2341 King.

The following are horns that have sparked my interest.

Not in any order

Gronitz PBK

Willson 3100

King 2341 (again)

VMI 3301&2 (again)

Miraphone 1291

St. Petersburg (Maybe)

Hirsbrunner 492

B&S PT2FP

And the Kanstul CTU/900/4B that I just heard about.

If you can think of any others that are out there, let me now.
I appreciate any "up to date" feed back on any, or all, of these horns. It would also help if you would tell me which MPC you are using with which horn.

Thank you very much for your reposnse and insight.

Davidrn1 · Post by **Davidrn1** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:32 am

I have considered the 582. However, when ever I went to play horns, they were always out of stock.

I also would like to add the Besson 993 and new Bb prototype to the list. I hope it comes out soon.

I played on 186's in High School. I have had enough of them I think. Very hard to get good articulation,at least for me, out of a rotor horn. Rotors sound very thumpy to me and not clean. I know others feel that rotors are the best. Its just that personal preference thing.

Thanks for the reply.

Davidrn1 · Post by **Davidrn1** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:44 am

I have been playing for the past 24 years. I started playing professional, with jazz groups, when I was 13 years old. I have played many mid and lower range horns, with a few upper ends thrown in there. I also play concert band, and Sousa stuff. I also play some classical as a hobby at home. I can get a good 5 octave Bb scale out when my chops are in shape and hit any note in that range at will.

Right now I just sold my 3301 because I needed the money after a car accident. I am sure most of you have seen my previous posts. I am not able to play right now because of severe neck and arm problems.

At this time I am doing research on what my next horn will be.

I am not sure of the price range as I am not sure what the insurance settlement is going to be. I would say I could spend at least 10k though.

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:13 pm

Of the horns on your list I would put the Miraphone 1291 at the top of the ones I have played. I haven't tried the Gronitz, B&S, or Hirsbrunner but have played all of the others. I haven't liked any of the Willsons that I have tried. The ergonomics just didn't work for me and the sound doesn't gve you much feedback. On the other hand they are extrememly well made and are worth a try. I would still rank the 1291 as superior for me in every playing characteristic.

I would rank the others in order:

(new) King 2341 (consistency can be an issue across samples)
VMI 3301
Willson 3100
VMI 3302

St. Petersburg. (I haven't ranked the horns I haven't tried)

It's interesting that you say you don't like rotors, but have the St. Pete as the only rotary valve horn on the list. If considering rotarys I would consider a Miraphone 191 or 186, Meinl-Weston 25 or 195 (fafner), Rudy Meinl BBb, or if price is more of an issue the VMI 2103 or Cerveny 686 before I would consider a St. Pete.

Of course every person who tries a horn will potentially have a different response to it in playability and ergonomics, but this is where I would start.

Mark E. Chachich · Post by **Mark E. Chachich** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:23 pm

If you don't mind rotors, the Mirafone 186 is a great choice. You may never need another horn. You can buy one used pretty cheaply, and you can always get your money out of them later if you sell.

Doc

I agree!

Mark

Davidrn1 · Post by **Davidrn1** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:47 pm

I

would rank the others in order:

(new) King 2341 (consistency can be an issue across samples)
VMI 3301
Willson 3100
VMI 3302

Lew, didn't you used to play a 3302 VMI? I thought that you loved that thing? What are you playing now?

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:09 pm

I used to own a 3302, that I bought for a reasonable price on ebay when looking for a 5 valve horn. I bought it because I really liked the 3301's that I had tried and this seemed like a very reasonable price. For whatever reason. either the specific horn, or the model in general, the 3302 that I owned didn't play as well as any of the 3301s that I had tried. I couldn't get the sound that I wanted from it, intonation was a struggle for me, and the low range was more difficult for me to hit consistently than on my other horn.

I sold it for about what I paid for it and kept my rose brass Cerveny 686 stencil until the new King 2341 came out. When I played the prototype I decided that it was the perfect horn for me. I bought one that I picked out of 6 of them and am very happy with it. This was the version after they lengthened the ferrules because people were complaining that it played too sharp, but before the large buttons and removeable valve section.

Subsequently Miraphone came out with the 1291 BBb. I have really liked the ones that I have tried. I think that if it had been available when I bought the King I probably would have gone for it. I didn't like it enough to consider replacing my King with it though.

Now my "playing" horns are the King 2341 for the band in which I'm the only tuba player. A Besson 983 for small ensembles, for the rare times I have the chance to play with them, and for the band in which I am one of 6 tuba players. And a Martin BAT recording bell BBb for those large outdoor venues or when I just feel like rattling the rafters. I also have a 1930s King sousaphone for when I go back to march with my college alumni band.

CJ Krause · Post by **CJ Krause** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:07 pm

pedaljay · Post by **pedaljay** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:25 pm

bbtubaman wrote:Rudy Meinl makdes some great rotor and piston BBb tubas. do not count them out

I have never heard of a piston Rudy in BBb? Can you shed some light on this horn for the rest of us? Is it a BBb counterpart of their CC piston or something completely different. Thanks.

CJ Krause · Post by **CJ Krause** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:48 pm

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:03 pm

bbtubaman wrote:

St pete- catshit looking for a hole to be buried in- terrible finish, valves totally suck, slides are not done well at all, and intonation is bad on too many notes and in most registers........ ive played with them in groups and it is hard to get intonation to work.

lol...i've had the same experience