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Hi all,

Opinions about the A trill in Meistersingers, and fingering combinations...

I am sitting an audition, and will be using an EEb (because it's the only horn I have available at the moment). 2 - 23 isn't a great trill fingering.

I was in a masterclass with Gene Pokorny last week and he suggested a lip trill, and even just wiggled the valves from four - one over and over and achieved a pretty good result (OK, an awesome result, it's Gene freakin' Pokorny!).

What are your favourites valve combinations?

If the weaker 3rd finger is part of the problem, slip your index and middle fingers over to the 2nd and 3rd valves just for that trill.

That may help a bit ...

What about 123-23 for the trill? That would be pretty easy fingering wise. It might need some work for the tuning...

Ahh, some nice ideas. Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of moving my fingers across, though I am not sure that will entirely fix the problem, it will still be crossing two harmonics (23 works for an A on EEb, though the result is less than desirable!). 123 - 23 seems workable, I will give that a go!

Bobo once taught me (for by a difficult trill) to slip my left hand over to man-handle the valve.

It's all about how it sounds.

Good luck.

P.

bloke wrote:In my late 40's, I decided it was about damn time to develop a reliable lip trill. I incorporated an exercise I developed into a daily routine (three times daily, actually).

Any chance you'd share that exercise? (Not that I'm in any serious need of a reliable lip trill, but I am interested and bet others are too.)

Bloke's exercise is not too dissimilar to the first measures from Kopprasch #60 (in the Keith Brown? - International edition for Trombone- book #1)

bloke wrote:

tstryk wrote:

bloke wrote:In my late 40's, I decided it was about damn time to develop a reliable lip trill.

At 56 I still cannot do a lip trill, and have no plans to learn. It is not like it is essential for good tuba playing.

The little Wilder "elephant" suite, the Wagner excerpt, and the Bozza quintet are the three excerpts that really stick out in the repertoire, but there are quite a few other applications when delving further into quintet and solo literature.

Mahler 6 is a work in the core repertoire that has a couple of tuba trills

it even says "lip trill preferred"

bloke wrote:I've played the opening and ending on contrabass tuba, and the interior "solo" part on F tuba.

Never been a fan of swapping instruments in the middle of a piece, especially one lasting only 9 minutes. Eb's a great choice, and the trill's not a big deal.

I say just "Jaws" it up. Bum bum bum bum bum bum...

LJV wrote:
It's not an athletic event. It's not proof of manhood.

It's ornamentation.

I like the cut of your jib.

So, now that that is settled....how about rhythm of the trill?

Starting slower, actually measured 4x16ths the first beat, then speeding into a trill for the remainder, the grace notes being as 16ths.

That's one way I've been coached to play it. The one time I played it in college (maybe a community orchestra even???) the bass section was 1 player who could hardly pick her nose. 'Celli weren't much better. Getting with them to see how they were playing it was fruitless, so I just did it the way described above. The conductor had nothing to say, I played one rehearsal and the show. I guess it was adequate...

But, using the lip trill approach, that doesn't work. Whadyathink?

At rehearsal last night a member of this forum(not me) nailed the trill, actually he nailed the entire solo with the trill as desert. Our principal trumpet made a big deal out of it. He didn't know the trill was written apparently. This trumpet guy has played this piece many times, at least twice with me and the current tubist. Did he leave his ears behind on the other occaisions? We all got a laugh at his expense. He did suggest a lip trill through a smirk.

tbn.al wrote:At rehearsal last night a member of this forum(not me) nailed the trill, actually he nailed the entire solo with the trill as desert. Our principal trumpet made a big deal out of it. He didn't know the trill was written apparently. This trumpet guy has played this piece many times, at least twice with me and the current tubist. Did he leave his ears behind on the other occaisions? We all got a laugh at his expense. He did suggest a lip trill through a smirk.

It's not a solo, and if the tuba player is drawing attention to him/herself, he/she isn't doing it right.

Todd S. "you might at least compliment the 3rd chair bassist and 2nd bassoon player as well" Malicoate

I guess that depends on who you are playing it with. In this case it might as well be a solo. One double bass and 3 cellos. And yes, he did it right. I understand that it is not written as a solo, but if it is going to get heard in this context, he is going to have to be the one.

I felt rather put out one of the times I played it, when the conductor asked me to back-off saying he could not hear the violins over the tuba - and I was only playing what I considered mf

Last time I played it, the conductor was obsessed with making sure it was a soli and not a solo regardless of what he heard - I ended up having to "lip-sync" it during the dress rehearsal just to get the guy off my back, and then use my own best judgment about what a good blend with the basses and celli really was when I was on stage. This was with a 3/4 CC tuba and I had done everything short of walking off stage in order NOT to be heard.

Sometimes conventional wisdom gets in the way of what's actually being heard. And you still have to nail the lick!

The celli don't join the line until the high E right before the trill, you know. 2 bars later the tuba line is no longer the most primary.

Fortunately our conductor is blessed with an abundance of common sense, a rareity in that breed. It will be musical, including the trill, and the audience will enjoy it, despite our intrumentation shortcomings. The bass player, tuba player and 2nd bassoon are wonderful musicians and fortunately the celli don't enter for a long time.