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Just a fun update on a project I have been itching to get completed.

Here is the skinny on my finished conversion project:

I less than happy with some of the characteristics of my Mirafone 184 C tuba
1. Stuffy at high volumes
2. Small reciever limited MP choices
3. Bark vs. muddy with certain MP choices

As you may have guessed from my sig, I like a germanic albeit slightly more rounded sounding tubas that the miraphone sound. I also like large bore instruments. My thought was to try to recreate an Alexander 166 (3/4 C). In my failed search to purchase one, I discovered it was effectively a C tuba with the F bell, although I did not know the bore size, I would assume it was made from mostly 155 stock. The infamous Ted Cox post about the Alexander double tuba (F/C, 3/4ish) seemed to confirm these suspisions. Since I had a very good 184 that was in nearly perfect working order, I started looking at ways to mod it. A friendly tubnetter suggested putting a 155 bell on a 185. A quick measure of one that was recently for sale showed it to be a poor match - the bell/bow match was too big for the bell, and the tuba would have been terribly sharp. It was also made known to me that the 2182 prototype bells for sale here by a westcoast 'netter were made from the same mandrel as the 155's... Alexander had sold them to Meinel Weston. A quick acquisition, and I was off the the races. I was able to book some time with Matt Walters to pitch the idea to him, and he was able to procure a donor "adapter" segment from a Conn to match the 184 to the "155" bell. Thus concluded the majority of the problem solving bit... it was possible! The rest of the story was just waiting for the guy with the knack to find the time do it.

The horn played a ~15c flat after the bell swap, so some of the main was cut, in addition to a small amount out of the leadpipe to fit a larger reciever. It is in tune, and plays great. I am having fun with a mouthpiece search now.

I have attached some images!


The horn from the front....


the horn next to the old 184 bell (for sale).

looks good!

Bit of a mess in the studio, but we're getting ready to move soon.

I forgot to mention: a. not stuffy at all. b. even response in all registers. c. really happy with the work Matt Walters @ Dillions was able to do.

Very cool! My former teacher from college has an Alex bell on his 186. I don't know many details beyond that, but it's interesting to see someone doing that again. Nice work!

OK, Ben, I'm thinking I want that 184 back now!

The bells look very similar in the pictures to me. Could we get some specs on the differences?

circusboy wrote:The bells look very similar in the pictures to me. Could we get some specs on the differences?

The angle is terrible to compare the bell profiles. I was trying to show the height differences in the picture. I'll take a picture before I box up the 184 bell to show the difference relative to another photo I snapped earlier of the 155 profile. The 184 is a 14.25" d bell, the 155 just over 15". The throat of the 155 is thicker than the 184 and the flare profile is different.

I had reservations about tearing into the 184, as there were many things I liked about it. In hindsight I am glad the experminet seemed to work. I will have some serious updates on the playability, scale, tone, and more after 1. settling down on a mouthpiece (need to get back a few on loand for this one) and 2. some serious time with the horn (possibly a few comments after a rehearsal tomorrow and/or a gig on Friday).

This

cktuba wrote:Definitely retains the Miraphone intonation. Not quite an Alex sound, after all it is still a smaller bore horn. But, a larger darker sound than a 186... Definitely leaning strongly in the Alex direction. But, that's just my opinion.

At least this is my initial impression too.

In addition to any differences in the bell profiles, you have to remember that length was added at the bell and removed at the main {tuning slide (?)] and at the leadpipe. Taking length away in the small bore and adding it in the large, conical bore of the bell makes a difference, too.

Changing the receiver and/or getting it set up right may also be a factor.

If I read this right, that's an Alex 155 bell, not a 2182 (which hasn't a wreath)... correct?

JC,
It's technically a prototype 2182 bell from Deck's era of designing that particular instrument with MW. It is made from the same mandrel as the 155, and matches it upon inspection. The wreath was on the prototype.

Terry,
From the Bobo lore, he eventually put a 15" Boosey & Hawkes bell on his 184 (IIRC). This was supposedly a very loud combination, but I have no idea which if any recordings would demonstrate this effect. Possibly Bobo wasn't 100% happy with the 184 either!

tstryk wrote:

Ben wrote:Terry,
From the Bobo lore, he eventually put a 15" Boosey & Hawkes bell on his 184 (IIRC). This was supposedly a very loud combination, but I have no idea which if any recordings would demonstrate this effect. Possibly Bobo wasn't 100% happy with the 184 either!

I did not know that! There is a jazz piece in my head, but I can't recall it - but I bet that is the horn he played on it!

Yellow Bird. It was recorded on a little Besson compensating F tuba.

Norm

Finished a good rehearsal tonight on the conversion project. Great intonation, the horn is much more free blowing, works well with a Bloke #2, and has very even sound through both dynamic and frequency ranges.

I took a pic of the original bell and the new bell, scaled the appropriately, outlined them them in different colors, overlayed them as best I could, and made the top layer (original) opaque. Terry was right - there is not a whole lot of difference in the curvature, but you can see that the proportion of kranz is different, and the lines kinda cross each other, the 2182/155 throat is proportionally larger (and when not scaled, significantly larger).

The sound differences are striking, regardless of whether the shortening of the leadpipe 0.3", the removal of the 2" in the main tuning slide, or the addition of 3-5" of bell taper contributed more is up for debate.

There will probably be some video/audio of the Nevermind Orchestra I may post, or I'll get our some rep to play one of these days on the thing.

I've played a copy of the Bobo-184; a "Miraha" with the 321 Eb bell (a copy of the Imperial). It was a very nice, much more powerful instrument, with more subtly overall. However, that classic mira-German sound isn't there... more the imperial, with a little CC sonority.

I understand that Ron Bishop swapped the 184 bell for a Besson Eb tuba bell. This probably would have been in the 1970's.

I don't know that he did; I'll ask. What I do know is that in the late 80's and early 90's he often played the borrowed Miraha.

He later acquired a very fine 184 and plays it still with it's own bell.

I bought the 184 bell from the tech who supposedly did the swap.

Just a quick update on the project. I have two recordings to reference the 184/2182 C vs my Alex 163 C. I used my Zoom recorder to reord both the dress and concert from the balcony of the venue, using the 184/2182 for the dress (I had rehearsals all day, and that was a better fit) and the 163 for the performance. I have included excerpts of the 1st and 3rd movements to hear the differences in audio sonorities between these two instruments. I also still have posted on mediafire the entire dress and concert if you are interested (the dress, I ran out of batteries durring mvt4).

Here's the comparison clips: via Mediafire

The complete Tchaik 6 recordings of both the dress and concert are here: Complete files

Later ~ 3 months I will have the official recordings and post some better sounding recordings from the closely placed mics from the professional recording.

I found the 184/2182 to be very focused and kept up pretty well with the orchestra, but its sound leans away from the Mirafone spectrum. It is its own unique sound. I'll be using it for an upcoming Wagner concert.