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Would someone please explain how to tell which shank (fitting, I guess) a tuba uses? I'm confused by the nomenclature; euro, large, small, etc. I just purchased a Cerveny 471 and the stock mouthpiece is okay, but . . . None of my husband's tuba mouthpieces fit the receiver particularly well, with the Bach 24AW being the worse. The Dillon Music employee nicely included an adapter. I just worry I'll lose it. I'd rather buy a mouthpiece that is right for my playing (newbie) and doesn't require the adapter. Thanks for your help.

Here's a great post by Matt Walters, repair guru at Dillon's music: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10390&p=81071&hilit=+shank#p81071" target="_blank" target="_blank

Here are a few more links to this topic from folks outside the normal TNFJ collective wisdom:

http://whyharrelson.weebly.com/3/post/2 ... art-1.html

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/entry.php/ ... p-Receiver

I've always found the Dillon AGR a bit problematic in daily use unless you are inclined to *really* crank it down. It can be hard to remove your mouthpiece.

Looks like perhaps Adams has solved that problem. It will be interesting to see what sort of design Harrelson has cooked up.

Harrelson's comments about the problems with a tapered shank system and the theoretical benefits of a collet system suggest an avenue for manufacturers to improve their products if they were inclined to standardize on a new shank receiver system.

I have wondered about this topic myself. It is just possible that measuring the diameter of the receiver opening may help (but frankly I doubt it....)

Matt Walters' post (and one or two other sources) gives the tip diameter for each type of shank.

The Bach mouthpiece manual says a standard mouthpiece is 0.519 in at the tip, and 0.575 at the receiver opening, and has a standard Morse taper.

Extrapolating from these data, the following table shows what size the receiver opening would be for each type of shank in an ideal universe, if all mouthpieces had Morse tapers, and all receivers were designed for the same insertion depth. Given variability between builders, different or inaccurate tapers, and wear or stretching at the receiver opening, these numbers are only the roughest of rough guides, and are quite probably ludicrously wrong:-

• Shank___Tip size________________Receiver opening
• Large______0.550in / 13.97mm______0.606in / 15.39mm
• Euro_______0.540in / 13.72mm______0.596in / 15.14mm
• Miraphone__0.530in / 13.46mm______0.586in / 14.88mm
• Standard___0.519in / 13.21mm_______0.575in / 14.61mm
• Small Euro__0.490in / 12.45mm______0.546in / 13.87mm
• Med.Euph___0.470in / 11.94mm______0.526in / 13.36mm

Missouri wrote:Someone who is doing some scholarship in music should make a list of which newer horns and standard horns take which shank.

I nominate king2ba or CLDmusic, as this would be helpful since it has already appeared as a topic twice in the last week.

Bryan

That wouldn't work for a lot of popular horns that have had dramatically different sized receivers over the years. The whole system is a bit of a mess.

The size of a mouthpiece shank at either end of the mouthpiece can help you determine what size it is. However, it is important that the taper of the mouthpiece shank match the receiver.

If your mouthpiece fits only at the end of the receiver, your mouthpiece may visibly wobble in the receiver. If it fits only at the opening, it may pivot. In either case, as one custom mouthpiece maker explained to me, it will leak air which is a very bad thing.

This begins to fit into the topic of mouthpiece gap which Alan Baer has studied and written on. However, some tubas don't have a gap because the leadpipe becomes the receiver, and that's a whole other set of problems.

So, mp shank taper is as much an issue as the measurement.

Alex C wrote:In either case, as one custom mouthpiece maker explained to me, it will leak air which is a very bad thing.

I think even if air doesn't leak out of the receiver, it's a bad thing. I have an fairly old Reynolds bass trombone with a Brown & Sharpe ("Remington") taper receiver. Morse (Bach) taper mouthpieces fit well enough to fool me for a long time, and I'm sure it didn't leak air, but when I got an old Conn 3B mouthpiece with that Brown & Sharpe taper, the improvement was obvious - both the fit, and the way it played. Much clearer, especially in the trigger range. Not surprising - there must have been a little back-gap around the end of the shank, since the receiver taper is closer to straight.

Many thanks for, um, quite technical information. Is this difficulty limited to tubas? I don't recall having such difficulty fitting small horn mouthpieces. Well, as I said, I'm new to the tuba world. I'll have a go at Matt Walters' link since he was the one who sold me the tuba!

... and with less material involved, an ill fitting French horn mouthpiece can be easily remedied by driving it into the instrument with a couple blows from a hammer!

Donn wrote:... and with less material involved, an ill fitting French horn mouthpiece can be easily remedied by driving it into the instrument with a couple blows from a hammer!

A technique known, if I remember correctly, as "mallets aforethought" ...