touring Broadway shows (minor rant)

[Todd S. Malicoate]

If you want to play in Europe and wind up with one of the smaller orchestras there (the Hofer Symphoniker for one), you will be REQUIRED to play double bass as a section player to win the contract.

That's very interesting. Unfortunately, in the states, it's not even a "plus."

[Tom Coffey]

I am surprised how fast the need to double on bass or electric bass has faded. As some have pointed out, there are actually people who discourage this now. I have read that Arnold Jacobs became a good enough double bass doubler (because he needed to, in the Indianapolis Orchestra) to handle Beethoven symphonies well. That is no small feat. My own teacher in the Conservatory in Cincinnati, Sam Green, was playing bass in a hotel orchestra immediately before taking (and winning) the Cincinnati Symphony job on tuba in 1943. When I was in high school (1973-77) enlightened band directors sent the school's double bass home with me in the summers so I could learn it. This was seen by the local union pros in Cincinnati (all of whom doubled on bass, some well enough to play in orchestras) as a pre-requisite to being a working tuba player.
I never became a good enough double bassist to handle Beethoven, but I have gigged a lot with it and, especially, the electric bass. Of necessity, I also added bass saxophone to the stable. I know at least one fine New Orleans player who was playing tuba, bass, and bass saxophone every week. As others have pointed out, it changes your approach to style on the tuba when you know how a bass feels and sounds in your hands.

[Lee Stofer]

Yes, yes, and YES!
When I was called in 2007 to play for the traveling show, "Chicago", the contractors were delighted when they were able to have one person play the tuba/bass book. On the 2nd night, at the end of sound check, one of the performers came up to me and said, "That's cool - it isn't often that we have a tuba-bass doubler". Hint to performance majors - if you want to work, develop skills that not everyone else possesses.

Agreeing with Bloke, tuba and euphonium are so close that I scarcely consider that a double. It should be a given that if you are a pro and play tuba, you can play euphonium to a certain level, and vice-versa. Trombone has been an important double for me, and experience gained playing bass trombone, electric bass and string bass in various jazz groups has given me knowledge and opportunities that a tuba-only player would have missed. Once you have learned how to create with your own two hands certain sounds and effects on bass, particularly string bass, it is so much easier to reproduce that effect on tuba. And, just like a really fine trumpeter should be able to play both jazz and classical music styles, there's no reason for us tubists not to study and play jazz really well. It's science, but not rocket science.

My favorite anecdote about this was one evening at the US Army Band's Tuba-Euphonium Conference, back in the mid' 1980's, when a Premier Band buddy of mine and I were discussing doubling. He knew that I played a lot of electric bass at that time, and said that I could do whatever I wanted, but as for him, he felt that it was best (implied, noblest) to concentrate on just one instrument, the tuba. We were walking down a hallway, and at that point were next to Marty Ericksen, who the night before had sounded like a million bucks with the Navy Band's brass quintet, so I turned to him, and drew him into the conversation by asking him what he thought of doubling. His reply was, "I play electric bass 4 nights a week with a band - what do you think?"

I'm not a great string bass player, and will never be, but I've managed over the past 5 seasons to learn enough bass repertoire as a section member of a local symphony to become much better. This past Fall, I thought that Beethoven's 5th Symphony would kill me, but it didn't, and neither has Strauss, Wagner, Shostakovitch, Bach, Mozart, etc. I would highly recommend digging in, and being able to play some repertoire that has no tuba, but a ton of bass work, regardless of the style of music. If I had sat here at home for the past 6 years, waiting for the orchestral tuba job, I would have played exactly three gigs, which is less than one percent of how much I've played.

Develop a variety of skills, and let people know that you have them. In the business world it's known as diversification, and can keep you employed when others are not.

[hbcrandy]

Bravo, Bloke, Lee and others who have contributed to this thread. You all are right on the spot. Diversification is the key to a successful free-lance career. Though I was trained at the Philadelphia Musical Academy for a career in a full-time orchestra, so were hundreds of others trained in their respective schools. I played in several small orchestras along the way, but, would have starved to death if I had depended on that type of work. In addition, I have also played a part of a local run with the Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey Circus as well as working summer stock musical theater on both double bass and tuba as well as playing in some Dixieland and ethnic bands.

As Bloke said, diversify your skills for success in today's musical market.

[adam0408]

I agree with everything posited here, but wanted to chime in on this part:

As many tuba players have walked away from the traditional string bass "double", is there any reason to not be as strong - in commercial settings (as "tuba-only" players) - as are many string bass players?

A few years ago, I attended an ITEC session on doubling with four panelists who were all some combination of tuba/euphonium/trombone doublers and who were all respected professors/performers. They spent the time explaining the windfall of gigs and money that come with doubling on other low brass instruments. During the Q-and-A, I asked what they thought of doubling on a more 'commercial' instrument (specifically electric bass, but also upright bass or piano)*. They thoroughly pooh-pooh'd this idea as "too distracting" from the practice of your primary duty, which they considered to be playing the tuba or euphonium. Their idea was that a double should be an instrument that replaces your primary instrument in certain settings, i.e. bass trombone in a big band.

This was among the most stupid things I've heard at a tuba conference, which is really saying something. A few months after that ITEC, I started taking lessons with a more successful tuba doubler than all four panelists put together, who, when I expressed an interest in furthering my musical marketability, encouraged me to buy a used electric bass and become competent at its operation. Even if I never made any money as a bassist, he advised, I'd get better at hearing and deconstructing bass harmonies, particularly those in 'commercial' music. This turned out to be extremely true.

Long story short, I think bloke's observation that tuba/bass doubling has shrunk is accurate and can be explained by the tunnel vision espoused by too many influential folks in our community.

As an Electric bass/tuba guy I think this thread is very insightful. I agree with you in that I don't think that improving your skills at any instrument other than your primary is "too distracting." If you do improve your skills to a workable level on another instrument, it could lead you to being "too employed."

I think to really understand the concept of bass as it is commonly thought of, you have to actually play bass. I've played "bass" on tuba a lot and it works just as well as a bass if you understand the sound concept, which bloke did well describing. I've even been told that people can't even tell the difference if they don't look onstage (take it with a grain of salt, they're mostly hammered.)

[Billy M.]

If I recall correctly, I seem to remember that one of the things Chester Schmitz did when playing with the US Army Band (before getting the Boston Symphony gig) was to double on string bass with the United States Army "Strolling Strings."

[Richard Armandi]

Bravo to you Bloke, Lee,Tom, et al.
Doubling Uprite, Electric and Tuba/Euph for the past 30+ years has allowed me to rub elbows with great musicians that I wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell to make music with, not to mention the fact that I could earn a living.
My only regret is that I didn't do it right after my 1st lesson with Jake (as he recommended) at 16 y.o. but waited 'til I was 25.
My best to all of you!
Rich Armandi

[Richard Armandi]

If we can concentrate on "just how to play one particular note" in an orchestral excerpt (an excerpt of a piece of music that few of us will ever perform), why not ALSO concentrate on "just how to play one particular note" in a (what we are asked to do far more often , commercially) certain type of stylized bass line ...??

Absolutely!! The more styles you can nail the better musician you become, which leads to more gigs and more $$. It of course takes much study and hard work, but it's certainly worth it.

I appreciate your posts, Sir Bloke, and hope you've open some eyes/minds among the unwashed.

Best,

Rich Armandi

[Lee Stofer]

Exactly. I would think of someone that only plays one style of music as being like an actor that only knows one character type to play. In fact, when I go out as an electric bassist or bass trombonist, etc., I think of myself being an actor that is playing the part of a bassist or bass trombonist. Can I convince the audience that I am that person? Whether using a tuba or anything else, you should study how to play the part convincingly. As a tuba player playing a commercial bass line, you are sort-of like an actor that is playing a character who has disguised himself as someone else, a little more complicated, but certainly do-able.

[PaulTkachenko]

As Lee said ...

Hint to performance majors - if you want to work, develop skills that not everyone else possesses.

Top tip.