Price Increases

[bisontuba]

Hi-
While browsing, I saw on Dave's BBC website a notice of updates on pricing of Meinl Weston, B&S, Hans Hoyer, instruments.
Prices have gone up. If anyone in Tubenet land owns one of these (MW for tubas), you may want to check replacement prices and adjust your insurance coverage. FYI...
Mark

[toobagrowl]

Hi-
While browsing, I saw on Dave's BBC website a notice of updates on pricing of Meinl Weston, B&S, Hans Hoyer, instruments.
Prices have gone up. If anyone in Tubenet land owns one of these (MW for tubas), you may want to check replacement prices and adjust your insurance coverage. FYI...
Mark

I have noticed price increases for Chinese-made instruments, too. The BMB tubas are now as expensive as some Kanstuls, Kings, and MORE expensive than most Cervenys and St. Petes.

naw...

Thanks for the heads-up, but

I'll just sell 'em at a big profit and buy Chinese copies.

[Wu299]

I recently listed a car on craigslist for what I thought was a fair, sell-it-quick price. I didn't want to haggle, I just wanted to get it out of my driveway, and yes, the car was listed for a "bargain" price. After the ad was up for a few days with little attention I asked a friend of mine that owned a used car lot what he thought about the ad. this is what he said:

"the price is too low, and you listed everything wrong with the car. Double the price and don't be so honest and you'll sell it before the sun goes down" He said anything listed for a price that makes people think they are getting a bargain also makes people think it's a pile of crap.

If the chinese 4 valve compensating euphoniums (which seem to be by everybody's evaluation remarkably good) sold for $3000 instead of $1000, maybe people would think of them as being better instruments. I have a feeling in 2 years prices will skyrocket on these horns and we'll be sitting around wondering WHY.

This certainly feels like a very interesting thought to me.

[bort]

Its not like the price doubled or anything. If the increase from $15k to $17k is a deal breaker, could you *really* have afforded $15k to begin with? (Just making up these numbers...)

[tofu]

Yes. You also don't see him here working his business into every thread and post nor attacking people that may not like any given product he sells. He's a class act.

Yes BBC is a class act.

For XMAS I received a BBC tuba stand. Unfortunately the first time I used it in a performance the metal insert for the screw fell out (a defect in the surrounding plastic). I emailed them and they immediately FDXed me a replacement. Did not ask for the purchasers receipt nor any questions nor pointing a finger as to possible user fault. Excellent to deal with and why I continue to deal with them.

[Roger Lewis]

It's pretty typical that B&S/Meinl Weston would update their price list every year as of January 1st. Miraphone typically does this at the end of March. Don't blame Dave for this, it's all based on the Euro/Dollar relationship. Some of it has to do with "landing" (the shipping and customs duties) as well as the price of oil can dictate how much it costs to get something here from Europe.

Just from my experience.

Roger

[TMurphy]

Yes. You also don't see him here working his business into every thread and post nor attacking people that may not like any given product he sells. He's a class act.

Yes BBC is a class act.

For XMAS I received a BBC tuba stand. Unfortunately the first time I used it in a performance the metal insert for the screw fell out (a defect in the surrounding plastic). I emailed them and they immediately FDXed me a replacement. Did not ask for the purchasers receipt nor any questions nor pointing a finger as to possible user fault. Excellent to deal with and why I continue to deal with them.

I had the EXACT same experience, right down to receiving the stand for XMas. BBC was a pleasure to deal with (kinda that the EXACT same scenario happened to both of us!)

[Kevin Hendrick]

Yes. You also don't see him here working his business into every thread and post nor attacking people that may not like any given product he sells. He's a class act.

Does he pay the sponsor fees?

Here's a link to the sponsors list:

http://www.chisham.com/sponsors.html

Do you see Baltimore Brass in the list? I do.

[Kevin Hendrick]

Here's a link to the sponsors list:

http://www.chisham.com/sponsors.html

Do you see Baltimore Brass in the list? I do.

I didn't know about that link. I do not see Jonesmj or Big Mouthed Brass anywhere.

Ahh -- it's one of the links at the top of each page (I've circled it in the attached picture).

[Alex C]

I thought the prices went up because of the Sequester. Just a coincidence? I don't think so.

[bigbob]

naw...

Thanks for the heads-up, but

I'll just sell 'em at a big profit and buy Chinese copies.

[bAHHHHHH you were being facetious wern't you??<s> BB][/b]

[imperialbari]

It's pretty typical that B&S/Meinl Weston would update their price list every year as of January 1st. Miraphone typically does this at the end of March. Don't blame Dave for this, it's all based on the Euro/Dollar relationship. Some of it has to do with "landing" (the shipping and customs duties) as well as the price of oil can dictate how much it costs to get something here from Europe.

Just from my experience.

Roger

One reason for European makers to adjust prices at a fixed yearly pattern might be about these companies buying sort of currency insurances from their banks. When the banks tell what a US$ will be worth in Euros over the next year then calculations are done from there.

Klaus

[ralphbsz]

The price increase on M-W (and B&S and Hoyer) is probably caused by something different: As these brands are now part of the Buffet company, I think they are imported into the US through Buffet's importer, instead of Baltimore Brass (and Horn Guys and ...) getting them directly from M-W. Which means there is one more middleman to feed, ergo price increases.

[bigbob]

[. )

bloke "sure glad there isn't any inflation right now "[/quote]

[bort]

This generation seems to want to buy things cheap, instead of buy things of quality. You can buy your Wessex Jin Bao tubas for cheap, and they might last 10 years. You can buy a nice German tuba like a Miraphone 186 that will last 10 years. If you decided to buy another horn, and you take care of them equally, which horn will have more value and more of a market?

Buy it nice or buy it twice. There is a time and place for inexpensive things that might not last a long time... but for things you want to keep around for a very long time, you have to look at the long-term return on it. Stupid example... we once had a glass french press coffee pot. We liked it a lot, but bonked it on the counter and broke the glass. To replace the glass was $20, to replace the entire item was about $30. Instead, we bought a stainless steel pot to replace it. I think it cost about $70, but it hardly has a scratch on it, and should last forever.

Regarding Chinese tubas, they're made out of metal, so its not like they are going to just disintegrate. My concern would be linkages, premature valve wear, and the potential of trouble finding replacement parts later on... and as with anything new, those are all probably too soon to tell (since the "serious" Chinese tubas are just coming to be right now).

[imperialbari]

Of course there is technical R&D, but musical instruments basically are tools for expression in cultural contexts. Traditionally musical instruments have been developed within exactly their musical contexts. Even in the Western hemisphere some areas have proven themselves having a better constellation of technical abilities and cultural background making them exporters to various market segments.

My worry about Chinese brasses is that they are made in areas without a profound and first hand rooting in a cultural tradition relevant to Wester type brasses.

Klaus

[bigbob]

I don't see that Chinese knock-offs of western-R&D models won't "last". It's just that they aren't as "good".



In the meantime, there are some great mouthpieces and other improvements are being developed, people like Martin Wilk are finding ways to make "great" tubas blow even better...and western manufacturers (rather than entering into licensing agreements with people like Mr. Wilk) are continuing to "conglomerate", and (yes) moving their "student" models' manufacturing over to...
...China. :|Why didn't you add your name there bloke?? I hear you make a mighty fine Mouthpiece!Don't yours make a great tuba sound better??..Intonation.. is that when your horn blends with the other instruments?Resonance? is that how much sound you can produce??Beautiful sound is it only older horns that have it ? and is some of that the player?? I know some of these questions sound stupid but before I entered this site I didn't even know that there were 6/4 horns!<S>..........BB ..still trying to understand<s>

______________________________________________
*That having been said, it seems to me that many of the new high-end tuba models of western (European) design either emphasize resonance (decibels) or improved intonation...with very few of them putting an emphasis on "bel canto" (beautiful sound). I find that most of the tubas which are capable of producing the most beautiful sounds were manufactured in the past. (This same trend tends to go for other families of top-drawer wind instruments as well - trombones, bassoons, saxophones, flutes, trumpets, etc...)

[Lingon]

...My worry about Chinese brasses is that they are made in areas without a profound and first hand rooting in a cultural tradition relevant to Wester type brasses...

That I think is a relevant and important point. However, that was also true for the Japanese stuff in the beginning of for example Yamaha's, or Nikkan, journey in to brass instrument making. There were also copying and other issues in the beginning but today we rank them as maybe not state of the art but many praise their instruments for their high quality and evenness. So maybe as time goes by the Chinese will also get there. Remember they are Asians. Not all off them alike, but they have had a long history with a culture that were a lot more developed than our. While waiting for the times to come I continue to get my pay playing my excellent Chinese bass and contrabass trombones. Not for money I also continue playing my not so excellent but perfectly apartment sized CC tuba