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It's one of the things that I focus in my studio. My students are assigned a couple of etudes per week. One is technical, the other is a Rochut/Bordogni. The goal of the latter is exactly what you're talking about. Too often, I have heard really fine tuba teachers say that teaching musicality is not really possible, that musicality has to come from within the student. I disagree with that notion and strive to teach musicality every week. My results have been mixed. Some students catch on, others not so much. One of the reasons I believe so strongly in this type of teaching is the current trends I was hearing in auditions. There is such a priority placed on flawless technique and "machine-like" playing that I believe it can leave performances rather dry and lifeless, if technically polished. I think technical excellence has its place but I prefer to be a music teacher and give my students what really matters: the capacity to tell a story and captivate an audience.

I had the pleasure of accompanying Mr. Feeney and his son on the last Lawrence Welk special, Precious Memories. During the taping, as a father-son duet, they sang a medley, including "You'll Never Walk Alone," and it was so well received that the audience made them repeat it. Yes, in the truest, original sense of the word, a standing ovation encore, when encore meant what it was supposed to mean: stop the show, we want to hear that again! So we stopped the show and played it again!

I took lessons for years playing the usual and some not quite so usual etudes for technique and expression. Only after years of this did I discover that you really could play melodies with expression on the tuba. BUT first the melody has to make sense. Rouchut and company wrote great melodic vocalises but they never did much for me. In other words they can be tough to sell as songs. I finally discovered Dixie tunes and Gershwin and numerous blues tunes that I could try and sell as music on the tuba. All of a sudden the phrasing made sense because I new the words and the song made sense. I also found that if I didn't have the music (more often than not) I could pick out the tune by ear which is pretty good ear training practice. If you listen to an orchestra warm up you usually hear a bunch of noise and very few melodies. Music is generally all about the melody (with harmony thrown in and rhythm) as the central focus. I even discovered as I started playing melodies I understood and could feel that one could play a bass line as a melody. What notes are important - how do you make a march bass line sing instead of sounding like a bunch of ohm-pahs? In short the tuba is a musical instrument and we should be trying to play music all of the time. In short give your students or better yet let them pick songs they know to play some of the time. Sorry for the rant, Phil

bloke wrote:Could "tuba soloists" EVER play with this much expression?

Sorry but I have to be the contrarian here ... your question is a bit like asking something along the lines of: "Could any GM car ever be as cool as a Hemi Cuda?". The answer is of course: "Yes!" depending upon the respondent. The definition of "cool" is quite subjective, much like "expressive". Someone who loves luxury cars could validly answer: "Yes, a Coupe de VIlle is far cooler than a Hemi Cuda."

bloke wrote:This is the late Joe Feeney (from the Lawrence Welk show). He was a Nebraska-born "Irish tenor". He didn't fake an Irish accent, and nor did he get into Irish pronunciations...but - without those add-ons - he was tops in the genre, and (imo) hasn't been topped. This "Irish tenor" thing (even with the general Celtic craze which began with the movie, Braveheart) may be fading into a "lost art".

Coincidentally I just heard a Celtic Sojourn episode in which Brian O'Donovan featured American-Irish music and interviewed a relatively young "Irish Tenor". I don't see it up on WGBH's site yet or I would link it. Their concensus was that the "Trad" folks are feeling more comfortable about traditions not being swallowed up by pop culture and that Am-Irish music is staging a comeback.

FWIW, this discussion has been going on since long before Braveheart. The Chieftains began making a strong traditional statement 30-some years earlier around 1962 and thankfully are still at it. In the above discussion they mentioned DeDannan's 1981 album Star Spangled Molly and its huge nod to American Irish music from a trad band. (I own this on vinyl, purchased shortly after it hit the US)

I remember old folks who played Scottish music beginning in the 1920's complaining about the "Tin Pan Alley" directions that Irish and Scottish music had taken - back in the 30's and 40's and their missions to resist it. It is around to stay for sure.

bloke wrote:As Joe Feeney could sell an Irish tune this well WITHOUT an Irish accent or Irish pronunciations, can we - playing the tuba - find a way to REALLY sell a tune or phrase WITHOUT words? (I just don't hear it done very often.)

hint: Notice how "corny" this is...but with any less "corn", how good would it be?

This is precisely my point. In a sense the corn is equivalent to the affected accent. As an example and sticking to the Celtic genre, James Galway is probably the best known flutist on this planet. As it happens he is Irish as well. The Chieftains asked him to sit in on one of their albums. In my opinion, his solos were syrupy and melodramatic compared with those of Matt Molloy. I much prefer the subtle sadness evoked by (most of) the traditional Celtic musicians which is like a dignified sigh as opposed to a melodramatic stage wail. I fully understand that this is my own prejudice but yes I think that uncorny emoting can be very good.

Back to tuba, Janos Mazura regularly creates quite lyrical and emotive solos - even sometimes throws in a bit of theatrics (like the opening phrase of Sailor's Hornpipe in his Fishin' Blues solo lol).

Now that I've ranted on, an answer to your question: Yes, here is a nicely emotive tuba solo without the corn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3l2YEwWpaA&t=4m12s

In short, we all obviously respond differently to different approaches.

No.

But euphonium soloists can.

Well, c'mon Joe, get the band together, climb into that perty helicon, an lay down a track or two for us. Summertime might be a good one. Show these eupho boys how it's done!

I am not sure expression is the focus like in the past as much as playing the right notes. If one is just playing the notes, there really is no expression. Yes start with the notes, but then get past them and really dig deeply into the music. Get off the page.

One of my favorite (and expressive) tuba playing is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXzPsRVF-Ew

And one of my favorite CD's:

http://www.chesterschmitz.com/schmitz_music.html

All music and expression. It is such a wonderful piece of art that we just don't hear very often.

Oystein played Ordner Seg, Gabrile's Oboe, and duet with Dave Werden Aria from Cantata No. 78 at the concert at King of Kings Church in Woodbury, MN this last weekend. All three were beautiful in sound and full of emotion. These likely will be up on You Tube shortly. I think they are a testament to great tuba playing with expression and emotion. Dave Werden showed that a euphonium can also match a great tuba sound.

tstryk wrote:

BVD Press wrote:
One of my favorite (and expressive) tuba playing is here:

It is beautiful! However, he is playing euphonium on the tuba. I wonder if has to do with the tenor range and it's impact on the human brain.

It is possible the tenor range might impact the brain.

Over time, I think we push the range levels so although Tubas are playing in the Euphonium range they are still Tubas. Trombones don't become French Horns just because the ranges are pushed to a higher level. It is easier to play lightly in the higher range, project, etc. so if one wants to be expressive they should do it in the range that gives them the most probability of success. Would Gabriels work as well down an octave in a more typical Tuba range? Probably not. Would Vaughan Williams 2nd movement work as well down an octave? Probably not because the orchestra would eat the tuba player for lunch.

Find the range where it works and be expressive. Expression is a lost art for so many musicians and not just in Tubaville.

bloke wrote:If we're veering off into the topic of "our favorite artists and their recordings", I've always been partial to this guy.

He kept his pitch under control (nothing sharp - including the vibrato not being sharp), and all of the expression comes off as within the range of expression of the human voice (rather than "over-the-top"). He completely understands the vocal devise of "rfz" and finally, the body of resonance is beautiful, yet not overly "round" or "blurred" (ie. "clear"...perhaps "crystal clear").

http://www.rogerbobo.com/mp3/standchen.mp3

That is truly a great example of playing vocally through the tuba or using the tuba as your voice. Know the words, the inflection, change sound if needed and express to the audience.

Most younger tuber playerz idea of "expression" seems to be sloppy articulation.

bloke wrote: If we're veering off into the topic of "our favorite artists and their recordings", I've always been partial to this guy.

He kept his pitch under control (nothing sharp - including the vibrato not being sharp), and all of the expression comes off as within the range of expression of the human voice (rather than "over-the-top"). He completely understands the vocal devise of "rfz" and finally, the body of resonance is beautiful, yet not overly "round" or "blurred" (ie. "clear"...perhaps "crystal clear").

http://www.rogerbobo.com/mp3/standchen.mp3" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

That's beautiful! I'm playing Schubert's Serenade in church this coming Sunday. I don't sound anywhere near that good. Thanks for sharing... and the inspiration.

MartyNeilan wrote:Most younger tuber playerz idea of "expression" seems to be sloppy articulation.

Or what they describe as blastisimo.

Mark wrote:

MartyNeilan wrote:Most younger tuber playerz idea of "expression" seems to be sloppy articulation.

Or what they describe as blastisimo.

Not really, more of a pseudo soft tongue that makes a blah- or fwa- at the beginning of each note. Bonus points for having no sense of timing or rhythm in the name of "emotion".

cktuba wrote:IMHO musicality comes from listening to great musicians perform. If all you listen to is rock and pop music you really limit your musical potential (although there are some very musical rock musicians). If you don't have a good concept of musicality to attach the advice your teacher gives you... It won't matter. Diversify your musical listening and listen to music as often as you can. It still amazes me when there are music majors who don't listen to a wide array of music performed by great musicians... And it does happen... Alot...

+1!!!

MartyNeilan wrote:Most younger tuber playerz idea of "expression" seems to be sloppy articulation.

OT in that OP was "tuba soloists" and this is "tuba bass lines" but my first exposure to Howard Johnson was when Taj released Recycling The Blues & Other Related Stuff in the early 1970's. Since I'd played tuba in high school, I looked around and found Howard Johnson as a jazz player - Mingus, etc. This sure didn't sound like the polished musician I found on other LP's ... then I realized how spot on his work was for Taj. On the surface a bit "sloppy" but when you listen to what he's playing it's a whole different story. He obviously knew how to put on a NOLA accent not to mention playing a tad behind the beat (BTW he is credited with "hand claps" as well and you know he had better timing that that)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBGbrFlWwsE