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Does anybody have the score to Oystein's brass band arrangement of Gabriel's Oboe and be willing to spare a PDF copy or sale it? Or is there anyone who knows where I can get it cheap? I've only found it on JustForBrass and I'd like not to spend that much if I can avoid it...

Nick,
if you ever get into publishing, please let us know. That way we can send .pdf files to each other and cut down your take from sales.

It's illegal to share without purchase.

eupher61 wrote:.... It's illegal to share without purchase.

Steve... even WITH the purchase, it's still illegal to share copyrighted material.

TubaTinker wrote:

eupher61 wrote:.... It's illegal to share without purchase.

Steve... even WITH the purchase, it's still illegal to share copyrighted material.

Dan ... it's NOT illegal to share a LAWFULLY MADE COPY OF LEGALLY ACQUIRED copyrighted material (see US Code, Title 17, § 109).

pgym wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:

eupher61 wrote:.... It's illegal to share without purchase.

Steve... even WITH the purchase, it's still illegal to share copyrighted material.

Dan ... it's NOT illegal to share a LAWFULLY MADE COPY OF LEGALLY ACQUIRED copyrighted material (see US Code, Title 17, § 109).

I think I must have misunderstood your comment. Are you telling me that if I purchase a legal copy it's OK for me to share it with someone?

Yes, you can share(loan)but you have to part with the original. You can't make a copy to share or make a copy for yourself and share the original. You can give away anything, just hope you get it back.

tbn.al wrote:Yes, you can share(loan)but you have to part with the original. You can't make a copy to share or make a copy for yourself and share the original. You can give away anything, just hope you get it back.

Yup.

eupher61 wrote:.... Dan ... it's NOT illegal to share a LAWFULLY MADE COPY OF LEGALLY ACQUIRED copyrighted material (see US Code, Title 17, § 109).

Steve... I mean the right thing but maybe using the wrong words.

I have trouble with the word 'share'. To me, 'share' means to each use something equally.

1) I can buy a score and give it to someone but I cannot keep a copy.
2) I cannot buy a score, copy it, and give the copy (or the original) to someone while keeping the original (or a copy) for myself.

my statement wasn't accurate either. grrrr....

eupher61 wrote:my statement wasn't accurate either. grrrr....

I'm neither a music or an English major!

TubaTinker wrote:

eupher61 wrote:.... Dan ... it's NOT illegal to share a LAWFULLY MADE COPY OF LEGALLY ACQUIRED copyrighted material (see US Code, Title 17, § 109).

Steve... I mean the right thing but maybe using the wrong words.

I have trouble with the word 'share'. To me, 'share' means to each use something equally.

1) I can buy a score and give it to someone but I cannot keep a copy.
2) I cannot buy a score, copy it, and give the copy (or the original) to someone while keeping the original (or a copy) for myself.

But you CAN buy a copy and pass it back and forth with another person, or among several people.

Think about it in terms of sharing a tuba: two players can pass it back and forth between them, but they both can't play it simultaneously. The same idea applies to a piece of sheet music: only one performer, be it an individual or an ensemble, can play it at a time.

pgym wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:

eupher61 wrote:.... Dan ... it's NOT illegal to share a LAWFULLY MADE COPY OF LEGALLY ACQUIRED copyrighted material (see US Code, Title 17, § 109).

Steve... I mean the right thing but maybe using the wrong words.

I have trouble with the word 'share'. To me, 'share' means to each use something equally.

1) I can buy a score and give it to someone but I cannot keep a copy.
2) I cannot buy a score, copy it, and give the copy (or the original) to someone while keeping the original (or a copy) for myself.

But you CAN buy a copy and pass it back and forth with another person, or among several people.

Think about it in terms of sharing a tuba: two players can pass it back and forth between them, but they both can't play it simultaneously. The same idea applies to a piece of sheet music: only one performer, be it an individual or an ensemble, can play it at a time.

Yup. I think we all understand the rules. Just have different ways of saying it.

Bottom line is: BUY the arrangement!!!

Support composers that write for our instruments!

So how does the sharing/loaning situation apply to something such as a quartet? Are you allowed to give copies to the performers so that the originals do not get damaged? Or must each member of the quartet own a copy of the score and parts?

-Chris

SFA Tubajack wrote:So how does the sharing/loaning situation apply to something such as a quartet? Are you allowed to give copies to the performers so that the originals do not get damaged? Or must each member of the quartet own a copy of the score and parts?

-Chris

If the work comes with separate parts, you can give each member the original of his/her part.

Strictly speaking, making copies to preserve the integrity of the original is prohibited unless the copyright holder explicitly grants permission to do so. For that matter, even making archival/backup copies without obtaining permission from the copyright holder is prohibited unless you're a library or an archive, as defined by Title 17, Section 1 of the US Code.

The practical reality on the ground is that you probably won't run into trouble unless you start distributing copies or several ensemble members make copies of the complete part set to use with other ensembles they belong to. Again, it's like sharing a tuba: you can pass the horn among yourselves as much as you want, but you can't all play it simultaneously, especially if you're playing different venues.

The fly in the ointment is the validity of the "licensed but not sold" distribution model adopted by some publishers for digital distribution of content (PDFs, ebooks, software, etc.), which has implications for first sale exhaustion rights (if it hasn't been sold, first sale exhaustion doesn't apply). Depending on the specific terms of the license, you may make be permitted to make multiple copies for your own/your ensemble's use. Various US courts have recognized the validity "licensed but not sold" model in some cases, but rejected it in others; the US Supreme Court has yet to address the issue. The EU Court of Justice, on the other hand, has rejected it completely.

Years ago, when I was a band director, I continually had problems with a purchased set not having enough parts for each member of a section to have individual parts. I would copy enough parts so that each kid would have his own part to practice at home. I was advised by an atorney, a parent of course, not to do that as I was breaking the law and setting a bad example for the kid. I chose to ignore that advice and continued the practice. To this day I do not believe I was breaking any law.

tbn.al wrote:Years ago, when I was a band director, I continually had problems with a purchased set not having enough parts for each member of a section to have individual parts. I would copy enough parts so that each kid would have his own part to practice at home. I was advised by an atorney, a parent of course, not to do that as I was breaking the law and setting a bad example for the kid. I chose to ignore that advice and continued the practice. To this day I do not believe I was breaking any law.

It is a reality today, that publishers supply minimal quantities of parts, compared with 25+ years ago. My assumption has been that the publishers have come to accept the reality of band directors making duplicate copies for their band members, and have decided to save that money for themselves.

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:

tbn.al wrote:Years ago, when I was a band director, I continually had problems with a purchased set not having enough parts for each member of a section to have individual parts. I would copy enough parts so that each kid would have his own part to practice at home. I was advised by an atorney, a parent of course, not to do that as I was breaking the law and setting a bad example for the kid. I chose to ignore that advice and continued the practice. To this day I do not believe I was breaking any law.

It is a reality today, that publishers supply minimal quantities of parts, compared with 25+ years ago. My assumption has been that the publishers have come to accept the reality of band directors making duplicate copies for their band members, and have decided to save that money for themselves.

On the other hand... there's a new trend that really pisses me off... Some publishers are selling a 'print on demand' feature that allows you to 'have it now'. You would think they would email you one copy of each part and authorize you to print X number of parts. But no.... when you hit the 'print' function... you're going to waste ink until the eight flute parts and so many of the others are done. Of course... this is still only one oboe and bassoon part! Grrrrr.

My hat is still off to Barnhouse Publishing where NOTHING ever goes out of print and is always available from their archives. It might cost a few bucks for each part you need but at least you can get it. Other publishers could stand to have a look at their business model.

Another disturbing trend is that some publishers are including "world parts" in their arrangements, while reducing number of traditional concert band parts. Presumably, they just want to print one set of music, so they only need to stock one version. They include all of the possible parts, no matter where they are marketing the arrangements. The problem is that you have to pay for parts that you may never use, while you find yourself short of the parts that you actually need!

Meanwhile, we are paying record prices for these arrangements!

I'm interested to hear how these arrangements work out, in other parts of the world.

tbn.al wrote:Years ago, when I was a band director, I continually had problems with a purchased set not having enough parts for each member of a section to have individual parts. I would copy enough parts so that each kid would have his own part to practice at home. I was advised by an atorney, a parent of course, not to do that as I was breaking the law and setting a bad example for the kid. I chose to ignore that advice and continued the practice. To this day I do not believe I was breaking any law.

Think what you want, but unless you had written permission, you were breaking the law. That's why each part has a copyright notice at the bottom of the first page. Fines, if caught, can be up to $10,000 per page per copy.