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Hey, as some of you might know, I'm on a college search and I have another question of advice to you other tuba players.
Currently I'm a high school student stuck between VanderCook, the University of Memphis, and staying to knock out some gen eds before continuing on to music school. I plan on majoring in music education but would like to perform before I settle down teaching like some teachers I know.
I was hoping you guys could offer advice on: the University of Memphis, the Memphis area, or the tuba instructor, Kevin Michael Sanders who graduated from Interlochen, Indiana U, Julliard, and Michigan State in that respective order.
Any opinions would be grateful.
And thanks to you guys for being so helpful!

bloke wrote: I remember when a semester of full-time tuition at Memphis State was about $175. OTOH, I was on full scholarship and wouldn't have gone otherwise, because I was banking all of my gigs money and recording jingles money to get married, and I didn't want to ask my Dad for $350/yr. for tuition. (He would have paid it, but also would have hung that over my head.) Hey I understand inflation, but I'm only 56 years old...not 86. Have inflation and supply/demand (lottery money/no private sector jobs/etc.) really jacked tuition that much...??

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/" target="_blank
What cost $350 in 1912 would cost $8199.95 in 2012.

bloke wrote:...so inflation is a much smaller factor, whereas "available lottery scholarship money", "widely-flowing student loan dough", and "supply/demand (no jobs, thus a whole bunch of people grabbing free money to go to school, since they can't find jobs)" have mostly jacked tuition, then...??

The out-of-state sticker price is $35k-ish for everything, total cost of attendance. A few minutes ago I FB messaged a friend who is an administrator at U.M. to find out what the discount rate is. When she responds, we'll see what it really costs the average OOS student to go there. I bet the total cost of attendance, on average, is under $100k for four years for an OOS student.

bloke wrote: See the golf course immediately north of the campus? Calipari used to live on the east side of it, so that's a decent neighborhood.

A decent neighborhood...for cheaters!

Biggs wrote:

bloke wrote: See the golf course immediately north of the campus? Calipari used to live on the east side of it, so that's a decent neighborhood.

A decent neighborhood...for cheaters!

Hahahaha. A decent cheap shot, for those who wish he was a cheater so they can avoid acknowledging that he's just better at what he does than anyone else.

I can't speak on the program or teacher at Vandercook becuase I have no experience with either. But I do know Dr. Sanders from my short time at IU and can say that you will enjoy studying with him and gain a lot. He is a very talented player and teacher and his studio is very active. Always seems to have regular guest artists coming through as well. I would recommend getting in touch with him and taking a lesson as well as meeting some of his students and talking with them.

bloke wrote:yeah...He is a cheater, but that specific neighborhood is just about free of robbers, gunmen and, cutthroats.

The next closest safe area to live, btw, is about thirty minutes from the campus.

I have heard a few specifics on that coach's antics, though.

Well, the NCAA, whose enforcement people live and breathe to nail both UK and Cal to the wall, haven't heard what you have. If they had, UK would already have a post-season ban. All it would take would be a whisper. In fact, 24 years ago while he was still dreaming of UK-maybe-one-day, that's all it took: just a whisper backed by zero actual evidence, perpetrated by a known booster of another program, got us a post-season ban. A couple of years ago, just putting in the media guide the empirically verifiable fact that Cal had coached teams at UMass and Memphis in the final four got UK a 5 page letter from the enforcement division demanding this and that. UK gets away with nothing. Less than nothing. The NCAA is entirely on your side in this, and yet nothing has happened.

Certainly he has had two players who cheated who have very publicly said Cal was not involved. (Well, one who cheated and one who was apparently guilty of not going home from Memphis to Chicago on the right day in order to pick up mail the NCAA sent to his mother instead of to him.) And there is some evidence that the University of Memphis skates too close to the line, especially in relation to FedEx. That is totally different. It's the university, not the coach. And indeed no one is out there with how Josh Pastner is a cheater, even though the same thing is still going on.

Meanwhile, the worst case of academic fraud in the history of college athletics continues apace at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and if the Charlotte Observer didn't have the bit in their teeth no one would even know. The NCAA still doesn't know, as far as anyone can tell. And then of course there is Duke: Corey Maggette has said in cold prose that he was paid, and that remains firmly ensconced under the NCAA's rug.

Being a Univ. of Memphis grad and growing up outside of Chicago I feel that I must chime in. Firstly, almost all cities have dangerous parts including Memphis and Chicago. When I was at U of M from 2005-2008 I felt safe when on campus and never had a problem with safety. Second, I got a first rate education with some of the finest teacher in their fields. I did not study with Dr. Sanders(I studied his predecessor Dr. Schulz), but Kevin is a great player, teacher and person and am honored that he is representing U of M. I would recommend that you make your own choice and not read to much into these posts. Take a lesson with both teachers, visit the campus and YOU make the decision.

bloke wrote:wow...seriously...?? (no sarcasm...true shock)

I remember when a semester of full-time tuition at Memphis State was about $175. OTOH, I was on full scholarship and wouldn't have gone otherwise, because I was banking all of my gigs money and recording jingles money to get married, and I didn't want to ask my Dad for $350/yr. for tuition. (He would have paid it, but also would have hung that over my head.) Hey I understand inflation, but I'm only 56 years old...not 86. Have inflation and supply/demand (lottery money/no private sector jobs/etc.) really jacked tuition that much...??



See the golf course immediately north of the campus? Calipari used to live on the east side of it, so that's a decent neighborhood.

It's not just inflation. It's because, contrary to public OPINION, most universities receive very little state funding these days. It used to be more like 20/80 to 40/60 of tuition to public dollars. It is now reversed. Going to college is now, more than ever, on the backs of the students who go. This is why I get annoyed when people start crying about "wasted tax dollars" and irresponsible students. Tax dollars aren't your basis of burden for universities as much these days as it used to be.

Kevin (Dr. Sanders) is a standup guy!

100k in debt to become a band director is nuts.find a better way.

talleyrand wrote:

Biggs wrote:

bloke wrote: See the golf course immediately north of the campus? Calipari used to live on the east side of it, so that's a decent neighborhood.

A decent neighborhood...for cheaters!

Hahahaha. A decent cheap shot, for those who wish he was a cheater so they can avoid acknowledging that he's just better at what he does than anyone else.

Getting dumped from the NIT in the first round? Yeah, I guess I have to acknowledge he's the best at that...

Do I detect a hint of Wildcat resentment?

talleyrand wrote:

Biggs wrote:

bloke wrote: See the golf course immediately north of the campus? Calipari used to live on the east side of it, so that's a decent neighborhood.

A decent neighborhood...for cheaters!

Hahahaha. A decent cheap shot, for those who wish he was a cheater so they can avoid acknowledging that he's just better at what he does than anyone else.

Not this year, my friend.

I agree with Mike Mason and LJV. I'd be very careful and examine the numbers carefully before committing to spending $100K. The monthly payment on a $100K student loan at 5% to pay off in ten years would be $1060. You might get some of the loan forgiven for teaching, but that could get in the way of your plans to perform for a while first. The monthly starting salary in the Memphis schools is now $42K. After your loan payment and 15% for social security (I didn't figure any income tax in, you might have to pay some of that) you'd have $25K to live on. Rent is going to be $750+. Are you buying a car? And so on. This scenario pretty much guarantees you aren't going to own your own home until your 30s. If you end up teaching somewhere rural, the salary will be less.

While it would be great to study with the best prof, you can probably get the same teaching job no matter where you study if you present well and have decent grades, so going somewhere expensive to get the good teacher/studio will cost you if you must pay more there. Of course, there are scholarships, etc., to consider. I'm not saying don't do it, just that your choices will have consequences which you must consider.

To those shocked by current tuition rates, remember that tuition has increased by 9% and more each year, whereas inflation runs at 2 to 4% and was even less during the recession. In addition, as someone else noted, kids are paying a greater percentage of their costs now as state support erodes. We've got lots of kids graduating with great degrees who can't get a job. My youngest graduated as the recession hit with a B average in Chem Eng and couldn't get a job. After two years of looking, she got a Masters and a job, only to be laid off a year later because the company hit a downturn. She's looking again. Fortunately she attended a State college and had some scholarship support for part of her education. But the Masters along cost $45K. It's tough world out there.

With on line education being more and more available, this upward trend of tuition can't continue. The bubble is going to burst somewhere down the line, especially since we've got to educate our kids to compete with the rest of the world and that's a political issue. Those in school now should be careful, as this could be the last generation saddled with $75K to $150K of debt. If costs reduce later, salaries won't keep pace and you'll be competing with kids who have no debt and no worries about taking lower salaries.

What if the kid's parents will foot the bill? There are some who can and will.

Frankly, I do not encourage anyone to go into a music major. Should a student really, really want it, I won't discourage either. I try to lay out the facts, for and against, and some of the myths as well, and let the student decide.

I realize that's not totally on topic for this thread, but it goes along here, too. Many states accept other state's certifications, at least on a temporary basis. There may be a requirement for testing or another course, but that's easy. Money? Yes, college tuition is way up, but so is in-house financial aid. The more tuition rises at non-public colleges, the more they seem to offer discounts, awards, and scholarships. State schools, maybe not so much, but there is a lot more aid out there than may be thought. It's competitive, but can be had.

But, your time is running short.

The picture does change if your parents have the bucks to foot the entire bill, but you could still end up with a degree that doesn't get you a job. Can those parents pay for the second major if you have to return to school?

As far as scholarships, my eldest had a 4.00+ average in high school and 1400+ on her SATs. She had an offer from the College of Wooster that paid half tuition. Still would have been $80K out of pocket. She went the in-state option instead and basically designed her own major in the College Scholars program. After two years in the Peace Corps and three in law school, she's still $100K in debt. She did get a job with the local Dept. of Children's Services, and it will pay the loans, but she ain't getting rich. If you aren't poor and a minority and a great student, I don't think you are getting a full ride unless you are a genius.

You pays your money (probably) and takes your choice. Weigh options carefully. It would be nice to have a house and a sailboat along with those 2.3 children and a night out once in a while before you're 50. Not to mention your retirement vs work till you drop.

tbn.al wrote:Do I detect a hint of Wildcat resentment?

Nah, I just love trolling defensive, holier-than-thou fans. As a USC alumnus, I've got a special appreciation for the type.

If anything, I resent Calipari from his Minutemen days.

Biggs wrote: Getting dumped from the NIT in the first round? Yeah, I guess I have to acknowledge he's the best at that...

Enjoy it while you can.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketba ... l-be-brief
"I hope y'all enjoyed it, because in 2013-14 Kentucky is probably going to be the best team in the country."